RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Discus were fine and their eyes are now going white. I did put the furan in out of pure desperation. With the stress coat how much can I put in and how (onto the problem fish? or straight into water?) I have nearly gone through a huge bottle. I am still trying to get a photo they are all shy and hiding the poor things - i feel so bad cause they are so helpless but im doing all i can. I have lost nearly all my tetras I think I have one left. Otherwise everything else is coping - JUST! Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 0 Ammonia - .10ish its just off yellow if you know the cards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 This guy is still hanging in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 The Baby Discus Eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 BGK up close. oh my poor thing in like 3minutes has gone down hill. My poor fishies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Ok so had a mad rush to save fish as they were dieing like flies. Lost all of our plecos including our lovely latest addition Tiger Pleco. So we decided to get dads water out of his tank and put it into our tiny tank and put BGK into it and he has picked up big time, swimming around - although the tank is prob a bit crammed for him hes doing so well compared to his death bed he was on before. I also put our synos in with him cause they always share caves so they'll be ok. And then we put the gouramis and 1 kuhli loach (Other half didn't want to leave him) into a bag and the discus into another bag with dads tank water in it and our discus have colour again and arent all dark and stressed. So fingers crossed, we have some survivors in the morning. Chances are I wont get much of a sleep though. Then tommorow If we have some survivors we are going to do a big tank clean out. Maybe even buy a new one with a stand, do a big cycle and add some of dads water and filter medium so that it cycles faster. What I would like to know now please is... 1. What should I use to clean all of the ornaments and gravel thouroughly so nothing bad is transfered? 2. Should I clean the plants if so how. Or just buy some new ones? Thanks so much for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Let's recap from the beginning. They were surface breathing. This indicates a lack of oxygen or something in the water from which the fish are trying to escape. You did a water test and ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were all 0. This doesn't sound right to me as there will always be some nitrates in a tank. Are your tests past their use-by date? You mentioned you had been dosing with Flourish. I seem to remember someone saying you had to increase the oxygen when doing this. You then stated they seemed to get worse after water changes but improved when removed from tank into water from another tank? Seems to me that indicates a water problem. Have the council flushed the pipes in your area with something recently? They sometimes do this. Some fish will be affected before others as some are more sensitive. I don't think anything will be transferred on the ornaments. Boiling always helps clean them. The gravel can be boiled too. Plants should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yeah im not sure what went wrong so from the begginging... I had been using flourish excel on a particular cavee in which my BGK was living and then he got we think a chemical burn from flourish? So I stopped using it but he still continued to get worse. Then we did a 50%water change and added salt to help them produce more mucus? Then my fish started breathing at the surface for air. So I did another water change and lowered the tank level so the waterfall filter could create a gas exchange and help them to breathe and also added in another air stone to help. Then with having such hot weather I also put the breathing for air possibly down to such a high temperature in the tank compared to normal. So I put in a silica Pad in a bag which they liked and played with a bit. Then my tetras and discus got cloudy eyes and fraying tails and weren't happy at all. Then all my tetras started dying off slowly so I did what LFS said and put in Furan. Then my plecos started dying and BGK was flat but still breathing along with my synodontisis so thats when we paniced and moved them all around into the tank water from upstairs. It was kind of a last resort to do this, but so far so good. BGK had all of him white and fraying as in the photos and now that has already flaked off and he's looking 100times better than he did. And yes the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite was all 0. Nitrate was not bright yellow but I couldn't say that it was at .5 either. So that is why it is kind of puzzling and I put it down to the flourish as that is the only different thing that I did to the tank. Now however we have put it down to the water, but still don't know what in the water. I think it was probably a combination of low immunity from flourish, then not breathing and high water temp? I have no idea if the council has flushed something, I hope not cause then dads tank is next. We have the same water supply in their house and ours. I was also using stress coat to help. I think thats it, im just relieved that the ones we have taken out are picking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Check the photos on the other page of our BGK and this is him now. Hes not covered in white any more its kind of all peeling of with new skin like sunburn would. Now its just resetting up the tank and cycling it for them to go back in, if they alst the night which im hoping they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Although your test was fine I would tend to think that it was ammonia causing the problem. I dose with flourish excel and it has no effect on my discus. Once the ammonia starts to rise, fish will come to the surface to air breathe and particularly if your pH is high. When do your kits expire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 The kit isn't that old, only a few months. How often do they expire? Where is the expiry date I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Not sure how long they last. I lost 50 guppies (approx) and a 10cm bn at the weekend to high ammonia. They weren't in a tank near our house so I didn't realise until it was too late. I also had an ammonia spike just before Christmas which cost me a discus and 10 cardinals. They were gasping for air and the discus eyes did start to cloud over. Cause in both cases - clogged filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Oh no poor you. I actually c an't find a use by date they just have lot numbers but they make no sense to be a date either. My discus seem to be nearly better no white eyes that I can really see. Gonna clean the tank out today after work, I only working the morning thank goodness. If I am using my dads filter media and about half a tankish of his water, how long do you think I should leave it before I put the fish in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I wonder if it was a reaction between the Flourish and the Furan? I have never used either product but do know you should never mix meds or chemicals. Your last question lost me :-? (not difficult) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Oh no poor you. I actually c an't find a use by date they just have lot numbers but they make no sense to be a date either. My discus seem to be nearly better no white eyes that I can really see. Gonna clean the tank out today after work, I only working the morning thank goodness. If I am using my dads filter media and about half a tankish of his water, how long do you think I should leave it before I put the fish in? If you use his filter media and half a tank of water just put the fish back in as they get healthier, Ie not white eyes or flaky skin / fins etc. And just keep the ammonia in Control with waterchanges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Cool. I had stopped using the flourish a few days ago when BGK started showing signs of damage and had done large water changes so there shouldn't have been much flourish left in the tank.. But that could be a possibilty. Umaga BGK dies this morning whilst I was at work unfortunatly. So we now have 2 healthy synos, 3 discus, 2 lace gouramis and 2 kuhli loaches. Not to bad considering I had given up on everything. And as for the question about when to put the fish in I was only asking as wasn't sure if I should wait til their better, wait a couple days for it to do a slight cycle, or put them all straight back in. Thank you dixon for answering that for me. The gouramis and kuhlis will be the first to go back in cause they are fine, I will give the discus and synos a couple days cause they had white eyes better to be safe than sorry. Thanks for all your help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 If you are using a healthy established filter and half a tank of water from a healthy tank you should be able to top up at least another 25% as it would be the same as doing a water change. If the fish are okay you should be able to put them back in. Just watch your readings over the next 2-3 weeks and water change frequently. Discus love fresh water anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Sorry about your fish. Sounds like things are on the upside of good now, I hope. Perphaps it was as you said a combination of factors. I have never used flourish (no real plants) and never used furan. But I agree with Caryl, and have read many times that you must not mix meds/chemicals so just keep that in mind for future reference. Keep us updated! Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Good morning, Everything is going good so far. It was quite fun setting up a new tank well moving evrything around I have put the Gouramis and Kuhli Loaches back in cause whatever it was didn't effect them. Then this morning my synos are going back in and then tommorow the discus. So all is well at the moment. Doing regular water changes and tests, the tank is still getting pretty hot so I just been using silica pads which the gouramis love playing with. And I am also going to add in a CO2 today before the discus so they don't go in and then have another shock in the water, so fingers crossed. Now I am just after plants I have a couplle huge swords and sagitarria but the swords aren't looking the best as I took them out and put them in a bucket and forgot about them OOPS so now the are still alive but not the healthiest looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Added in the discus and aynos today. all is back up and running. Doing daily aparmeter checks just until im satisfied all is well. And water changes also. I just want to say thank you everyone for your advice. Greatly appreciated. Hope you all have a lovely weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 geez just read this post ..sorry to hear about yr tank rochelle should have pmed me and i would have shot round to have a look i am confused by yr readings however i see that things are back to normal but it pays to know what went wrong i do believe somehow yr filter crashed either by powercut /or blockage a cycling filter with that many fish cant read 0 nitrate unless you are doing literally 100% water changes daily and i see in a later post that yr ammonia spiked to a almost yellowish colour this could be from the deaths of the fish but also i result from a crashed filter you were doing the right things by constant water changes in the same note it would have payed to stop feeding for a few days or remove some fish to help reduce the load on the filter it may have started as a chemical burn but it wasnt the end result unless it was a huge amount and burned all the fish in which case i would have expected to see the same happen to the discus as it did the BGK let me know if you need me to come have a loook or even test yr water for myself to find out what yr readings are ... have you always had these readings or has yr nitrates been higher in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hey, Nitrates in the past have been visible normally around the 5-10 mark reading from my notes, I write them down to keep history. I thought they may have been low due to so many water changes?? The waterfall filter thing was fine but the internal filter had a build up (not blocked) in the pipe. - I just cleaned out that this morning. The discus did get cloudy eyes and frayed tails but that cleared up pretty fast. I am going to purchase a new test kit - which one do you use or recommend? Maybe when we come for a new replacement pleco when we get everything back to normal and can afford it I could bring over a water sample just to compare and see your thoughts (won't be for a wee while though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 no probs rochelle just whenever you feel like comming over , wasnt doubting yr readings just a little confused and never had a zero nitrate reading unless i was cycling a tank or had some problem with it take care till then mr pleco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochelleMay Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 If my tank does get another ammonia spike - is there any other way that I can get rid of it besides water changes. Im so scared of a spike again. Im doing 50% water changes daily just to be safe with all the fish back in it. And am feeding them every few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu :) Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 If my tank does get another ammonia spike - is there any other way that I can get rid of it besides water changes. Cat Litter, the Zeolite based stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeolite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeolite#Aquarium_keeping Put half a cup in a stocking (you can get six packs of granny knee stockings from the $2 shop), rinse VERY well and either put it in the filter or in the path of a water current, remove once ammonia is gone or has stabilized; this means that the zeolite has adsorbed all the ammonia it can and is about to and/or started to leach ammonia back into the system. Yes your water will go cloudy for a awhile, but it will settle. Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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