enzoom1 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Well I was looking at my new tank today and I discovered that my recently purchased silver dollars have white spot. :evil: I don't have any meds to help them atm other than melafix (but I don't think that would do much?) but can anyone offer advise on experience with them and ich or on what I can do to help them? (this is my first white spot epidemic!!! ) Any advise VERY happily accepted Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 damn. :evil: that sucks. firstly increase the water temp (28 -30) and do a partial water change. add some salt to the water and meth blue or green. (acriflavine is good too). to medicate i use the rule that you should be able to see the back of the tank after the meth blue has been added. this has always worked for me in the past. however there are more accurate methods lol. what are the other fish in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Just do the temp thing and salt, meth blue is useless, only really good for fungus, I have always used rock salt from the supermarket and it has always cleared it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzoom1 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Ok I've increased the temp to 28. So basically all I can do is raise temp and add rock salt (how much? it's a 370 litre tank.)? The only other fish in the tank is a 3" severum. Thanks for your quick replies btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I usually stick in 1TB per 20L on the first day if it doesn't get better add the same again its pretty harmless to the fish that you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Sigh, come on guys, you can't just chuck random amounts of random chemicals at things and hope it fixes the problem! :evil: :roll: Add 1/2 tsp of salt per litre. This is for TABLE salt. The grain sizes are different for different types of salt, 1/2 tsp rock or flaky salt is quite a different amount of sodium chloride. There is NO PROBLEM with using iodised salt or salt with anti-caking agents. There is no science behind the claims that it should not be used. To calculate cupfuls of salt for larger tanks, 1 tsp salt = 6.6g. 370 litres divided by 1/2 = 185 tsp 185 tsp x 6.6g = 1221g = 1.221kg 1cup salt = 250g thus 185 tsp salt = 4.88 cups (yes that is a &^%$load. Bet no one would have estimated that much, right?) HOWEVER your tank is not filled right up, and there is presumably a bunch of rocks and gravel. Work out the estimated litreage and recalculate. Dissolve it first. Do regular waterchanges, like every two or three days. Take note of the amount of water you change in litres, and replace the salt removed. Yes, salt is not a serious chemical, the fish can probably deal with many times that amount. Whitespot IS a serious parasite and very annoying to get rid of it you don't know what to do. If you don't get it right the first time, you risk DEATHS. DO NOT stop treating until long after the last spot falls. The spots on the fish are not killable. Nor is the spot killable after it falls off. It the matures and releases hundreds of tiny free-swimmers, THESE are killable. The moment one latches onto a fish it is not killable any more, but it is too small for you to see. My tanks are all cold water, I don't know how long the lifecycle is in tropical temperatures, but it is faster. In cold water the lifecycle is about a week. I need to continue to treat my fish for two weeks AFTER the last spot fell off the fish to be absolutely sure they are gone. Rant Two: When will you people learn to quarantine your fish?? Yes ok so I learned the lard way too, twice, and now NOTHING goes near my tanks without at least two weeks quarantine. I have some fish who have just done two weeks quarantine, but because I really couldn't stand anything going wrong in the main tank, they will get a week extra of quarantine. It is JUST as important for you guys buying your fish from pet shops and fellow keepers as it is for me taking fish out of streams. :roll: Sorry, in a crabby mood. But still, I am tired of seeing these sort of unhelpful suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Nothing random about 1TB per 20L at all of rock salt? I have had white spot on clown loaches and also on a few other fish I have brought in with terrible white spot and treated it this way. I always underdose first and have sometimes had to add the same again the next day, I like to have as little crap in my tanks as possible even if it is only salt, and white spot has never killed a fish that I have had, to actually kill a fish it would have to get very bad. Maybe even a small dose is enough to get the fish producing enough slime the whitespot cysts can't stick them them so they die off? Quarantine sometimes does nothing for white spot there are some theories that it lurks in all tanks and occurs when fish are stressed or run down, so you could quarantine them then the move to their permanent tank could stress them causing white spot. Yes all fish should be quarantined but it wont prevent white spot (you should be able to tell quite easily if they have it when you get them). No need to get angry with people for offering up their advice and what works for them. Just a little while ago you were complaining that someone didn't tell you you had to treat whitespot longer in cold water when that's common sense for something with a lifecycle affected by temperature, now your the expert going off and saying everyone else is offering crap unhelpful advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 i too add salt as an estimate measure. just as much as i feel is right. even with meds i always start off underdosing and then up the meds until i think its right. most of these measurements 1 drop per L etc have been formulated by the companies making the medicines - maked me somewhat doubt the validity of their claims. i prefer to go on that gut instinct and all that i was taught as a kid. commercially i use a mixture of medicines that i have formulated - and when time is of the essence i can get rid of the worst cases of white spot in 3days which i thought was pretty good. but then again i wouldn't recommend that to any one as they are not my fish. my flatties tank got white spot so bad that the fish were literally weighed down by it and in 3 days it was all gone cause of this medication mixture. didn't lose a single fish, and never have for all the time ive mixed that stuff.... so there are other methods - just either not that common or just not "acceptable" by everyone out there. there is more than one way to cure the same disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 There is a fascinating article here on dealing with whitespot: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml This guy is excellent at debunking all those pervasive fishkeeping myths, can be a bit heavy-going, but everything he says is backed up by science. This is what he has to say on the 'whitespot are everywhere' myth: "What happens is, the free-swimming tomites attach most easily to the gills. The rest of the fishes' skin is protected by a sturdier mucus coating that's constantly renewed, sloughing off all kinds of minute organisms that might settle out. Trophonts that are newly-attached to the epidermis are invisibly small. So a "carrier" fish is simply one that is invisibly carrying Ich, perhaps on its gills. There is no "dormant" independent, long-term encysted life stage separate from a host fish for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. This is useful to know. You will often hear to the contrary. Dr. Peter Burgess, who took Ichthyophthirius multifiliis as his Ph.D. subject at Plymouth University, mentioned among Ich "old wives' tales" that "It's present in all aquariums." "What utter rubbish" noted Dr. Burgess (in the Nov 2001 Practical Fishkeeping). Brits don't mince words." Whitespot being in the water anyway is completely at odds with its lifecycle, it is simply not possible. Sorry for being extra-grumpy last night. Yes, whitespot misunderstandings and half-recommendations annoy me, but it was uncalled for. I shouldn't take my own #&$% out on others, especially when someone had just done it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_fish Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I have used a medication called 'White Spot Cure' with great success - it's an anti-parasitic and cheap ($4 or so a bottle, if I recall) – I have Spike, my Siamese Fighter who 'came back from the dead', to prove its effectiveness. As others have said, you must continue to treat for awhile after you cease to see the spots – I treated for another week and kept him in his hospital tank for the following week, just to make sure. At the risk of causing confusion and being a bit controversial(!), on the subject of salt I have been doing my own reading lately and have been surprised to find out that a lot of people do not recommend it. I always used to use it, with no apparent problems, but have now stopped – although, as others above have said, it does work to cure ich. So you might want to read a few bits and pieces and make up your own mind before adding it to your tank. These are some of the articles I read which seem to make some valid points: http://www.algone.com/salt_in_fresh.php (from a aquarium pharmaceuticals company, so maybe biased, but interesting nonetheless) http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article5.html http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=85698 (scroll down to the first post by liv2padl) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks for posting the links. The first article I find extremely difficult to follow. Makes sweeping claims then weak arguments to back it up. Or maybe my brain is tired. The second article I found to be similar. I DID like the third article! Much more confident style and not seeming to mix fact with fiction. My favourite site on fishkeeping has one on salt which I have found very handy: http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/salt.shtml I don't know that the articles are *not* recommending salt per se, but saying a lot of common recommendations and understandings are wrong. It simply doesn't have as many uses as are claimed. For me it is awesome on ich and columnaris, and can help with the odd other bacterial issue, and I feel it is safer for me and the fish than commercial chemicals. I used to do the thing of routinely adding salt as a 'preventative' till I found it was baseless. Another change I have made recently is doing the whitespot dose of salt when I take wild fish into quarantine. I have ummed and ahhed over this for ages, as only a few lots have ever brought it in. But I figure now that the risk of the parasite, and the even longer treatment time required, is worse than unnecessarily treating fish (you don't know they have it until there is an outbreak). I would not do this with the commercial chemicals, as I think they are harder on the fish. (struggling getting the right words today) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzoom1 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Ok well it time for an update on how the fish are doing... So far noone has died which is good. I have added altogether 20 tbsp of rock salt to the tank over a 24 hr period (too much salt - too little salt?) and the temp is at a stable 29-30oC The fish look fine and healthy (other than their white spots) and I hope the spots should "drop off" in the next 3 days (?) But as said I will wait a further week after no spots are visable. Once again thanks for all the advise received. (EDITS: spelling and missed some info) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzoom1 Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Just to let everyone know, the treatment finished about a week ago and it worked wonders. Thanks all for your contributions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 That is great to hear! I am now battling whitespot.... :evil: would like to use many words the Mods would mod, but sadly it makes little difference. Salt, time and fanatical adherence to cross-contamination rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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