Ira Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 I'm still having trouble with my tank full of guppies. I've been doing 50% twice weekly changes and the nitrates are still around 50ppm and the guppies are dropping like flies. Today I took everything out of the tank and have removed most of the plants and replanted most of them. The plants, Hyposperma? Something were in a big clump and most of the center ones had turned brown. The tank shouldn't be making that many nitrates without any plants or anything, I'd think. Really messy too, in a couple days there are big clumps of garbage drifting around the bottom of the tank. Yuck. Ther are only maybe 2 dozen guppies and 2 bristlenoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 The plant will be Hygrophila polysperma I think you mean. This is a good fast growing plant to put into a newly setup tank. I can't find the following information anywhere so forgive me if I am asking you to repeat anything but what size is the tank and what (if any) filtration is being used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 26, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 The tank is a 100ish liter(I'd have to go measure it to be more exact) and the filter is a Fluval 404. No substrate, found that the gravel collected way too much debris. Yeah, Hygrophila polysperma and a also a bit of hygrophila something AKA wisteria...A few fragments of indian fern too, but they're just tiny fragments so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 The wisteria will be Hygrophila difformis. I am not too good in the litre department. Is 100L a standard 2ft x 1ft x 1ft tank? (I guess I should say 60cm x 30cm x 30cm). If so, isn't a 404 too much filtration? Don't know whether it would have anything to do with your problems if it is though My first thought was something having died under a undergravel filter but since you don't have one - or substrate - that stuffs up that idea! What have you got in the filter chambers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Did you just have the plants sitting in pots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 26, 2002 Report Share Posted June 26, 2002 Hi Ira, Seems you still have a problem. Remember this, http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=288 And this, Bill said, JMO, but personally I would get them outta there real quick and into another tank until you sort your water out, even if it means losing a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Actually, the tank never had gravel in it at all. Right now I'm thinking the problem is a combination of a bit of overfeeding(They're getting barely any now) and since the polysperma had grown into a massive clump the outer leaves were happy and green, but the inside wasn't getting any light and was rotting. There was also a huge amount of garbage and sludge trapped in the plants that wasn't visible from the outside. The tank was fine for about 6 months until this problem started, by the way. Caryl, Yeah, the plants were in pots, I'd tried using a little bit of dirt in little plastic plant pots covered with gravel to keep it from making a mess. I don't know if that actually might have been a contributing factor or not. I think the plants loved it though, because they were so heavily rooted that when I yanked on them all the dirt in the pot came out in a clump. I haven't found the 404 to be too much filtration IF I point the outlet at the side of the tank. Otherwise it makes quite a storm inside. I decided on the 404 because I've already got another one but it had started making a loud buzzing noise. So the old one's head is on the pump in the bird room on the guppy tank, and the new one is in the dining room on the cichlid tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 I wonder if the fertiliser in the dirt added to the problem? The plants rotting in the middle certainly would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Shouldn't have been any fertilizer in the dirt. It was just dirt, dug up from the ground. Might have been enough organic debris in it though to do something, but I'd have thought that would have showed up in the first few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 If fertiliser didn't, pesticide / herbicide residues certainly could have. When using soil in pots: A. use only a small portion. B. It is best to use soil that comes from an uncultivated area and is taken at least 15cm below the surface. Nothing personal Ira, for all I know this is exactly what you did. It is more a comment for anyone thinking of using the same method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 27, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 I think I'll stop stuffing around with that tank for a while and let it settle, same for my other tanks since I just noticed my electric blue is covered in some type of fungus or something. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?p=2798#2798 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Hi Ira, Derek said, It is best to use soil that comes from an uncultivated area and is taken at least 15cm below the surface. IMO any area is pretty suspect, (dogs, cats, cars, people polution) but next time try this. Get a small amount of peat (Organic... no additives) Small amount of potting mix (Organic... no additives) One pudding bowl. Soak peat and mix in the bowl till fully soaked. Strain and fill an ice cube tray with the contents. Freeze till firm. Remove frozen cube of peat/potting as needed and slip under your plants as needed. The ice gradually melts and peat/potting mix gradually disperses under your plants No mess etc. Note: check the pH, it may change to slightly acid, but by adding small cubes like this it shouldn't . Happy Days Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspiringAmano Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 Very nice Tip pegasus! You should post that on the planted tank section of Toms place. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 29, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Ok, I noticed the two bristlenoses in the tank were acting a bit out of it. So I've pretty much decided to cut my losses on that tank, I thought beforehand that the tank would be alright and they were doing ok. I've taken the bristlenoses out and they're now floating in nets in another tank. The male was so out of it that I could pick him up in my hand and carry him to the new tank. The female though, was much more active, I thought I'd try the same thing...And she pincushioned me with her cheek spikes! OUCH! Hopefully they'll come right. I've also removed everything except the replanted pots with plants in them. I KNOW they're clean. Under the rocks, which I stupidly decided not to move before because I thought they were flat against the bottom and garbage couldn't collect there, I found heaps of guppy corpses and fragments of corpses. That's all cleaned up now, I've also cleaned out the filter and put in new carbon. I added 6 tablespoons of salt for good measure. Next time, I think I'll go to a plumbing shop and buy a bunch of short plastic pipes for the fish to hide in. Easier to move and clean around than big rocks. Just not as nice looking, so they wouldn't do for something that has to look nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Ira sounds like youre having a real bad run with this tank. It might pay to check and monitor ammonia levels in that tank, especially since I found heaps of guppy corpses and fragments of corpses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 29, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 I don't know about it being a bad run...I think it's all just the consequences of nitrates getting too high because of dying plants and debris caught in the plants. I think that caused a lot of the guppies to die which just made it worse and last longer. It shouldn't have to re-cycle though. All the bacteria should be fine in the media in the filter. All I did was give them a rinse and there are only about a dozen guppies left in the tank, so now it's got a really low bio-load. I don't think the male bristlenose is going to make it. He's not doing much more than twitching his fins. A bit of trivia, did you know that they feel like sandpaper all over except for their nose where their bristles are and their bellies? Ok, let's be optimistic, any suggestions about what to put in the tank next? Something fairly small, maybe a max of 2-3 inches and maybe relatively easy to breed? Something a bit out of the ordinary would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 If you want something a bit out of the ordinary, it won't be easy to breed. That's what makes them a bit out of the ordinary. Have you ever tried leopardfish, Phalloceros caudomaculatus? They are a cold water fish and very pretty. There's always the platies. Try breeding a specific colour line. Are you wanting to keep them with the remaining guppies or start afresh? Ask Andrew about suitable killifish species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Hi Ira, Don't want to be a P.I.T.A., but Ok, let's be optimistic, any suggestions about what to put in the tank next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Thanks David David wrote Very nice Tip pegasus! You should post that on the planted tank section of Toms place. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 29, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 The male Bristlenose was dead this morning. Pegasus, I've read everyone's advice. What else is there left for me to do but start over and know this time to keep the plants trimmed more so they collect less garbage and to be quicker to tear everything out of a tank to clean it? Caryl, Killifish sound like an idea. Might do some research. I don't think I've ever seen any in fish stores. Though, if I did I probably didn't know what I was looking at. I've also thought maybe some dwarf gouramis, but they're a bit more common than I'd like. But, you're right, if they're uncommon, they won't be easy to breed, and I'd probably have a hard time getting two nymphomaniac fish to breed if they weren't guppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Killies don't appear in shops very often. I suppose this is because many are annuals so quite old by the time the importers manage to get them through quarantine! Contact Andrew in the NZKA. Aphyosemion scheeli would be good to start with. They are a very pretty fish. Killies would be good because you want something a little different and, as you say, they are not seen very often in shops but a number of them are not difficult to breed. You will also get a lot of advice from NZKA members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Caryl said... > Aphyosemion scheeli would be good to start with. That's good advice. Epiplatys dageti might also be worth a go... Or perhaps Aphyosemion australe. Get in touch with me if you're interested in some killies. Stuart Lord in Upper Hutt generally has some available and I'm sure he would be happy to help. Check out http://nzka.killi.net Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Hi Ira, You are quite right, Pegasus, I've read everyone's advice. What else is there left for me to do but start over and know this time to keep the plants trimmed more so they collect less garbage and to be quicker to tear everything out of a tank to clean it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 30, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Ok, This is the way I'm seeing it What was killing the plants off: Lack of light in the center, I think. They'd grown into a thick clump about 9 inches wide by 9 inches tall. So there was very little light getting to the middle and the leaves there turned brown and died. The stems stayed green. Why were the fish dying: because the debris stuck in the plants and the rotting plants themselves made the nitrates go up to 100+ PPM while I had stopped keeping an eye on the nitrates after them being 0 for 3-4 months. What were the readings in the tank at the time: When the fish first started dying, Ammonia:0, Nitrates:100+, PH: 7ish What did you add to the tank over that period: A bit of flakes, a bit of frozen daphnia, brineshrimp and blood worms, and spirulina disks. About a mil or two of fertilizer mix each night What did you do different over that period... Add fish/plants/ etc: Trimmed the big clump of hyposperma Polysperma or whatever by about 1/3rd Just basically snipped off the top. Maybe I trimmed enough that the plants couldn't absorb the extra nitrates. I don't know. Are you using seperate equipment for each of your tanks (Nets etc): If I had a budget for 3 different sets of everything for each tank I might consider it. But at the moment I've got better things to spend my $.02 a day income on. I DO think trimming the plants would help. It would keep them from growing into a big ass ball and blocking all the light from the center. Keeping them more tidy would probably also help in cleaning debris from them. They had big globs of slimy decomposing...Stuff in them when I took all the plants out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 Hi Ira, Seems you isolated one of your probs, nitrates go up to 100+ PPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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