Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 My big community tank, all happy, healthy for months. I add 6 new cardinals last week Tuesday, all seems well. Do the first waterchange for yonks (only about 25 litres, in a 170 litre tank) on Saturday (I think, may have been Fri). First Rummynose dead on Monday. I think "ah, that must have been the one that got sucked up the siphon and bumped around." Tuesday, another 2 Rummies dead. Today, another one down. Tonight, another Rummy dead and both my adult bristlenoses dead. All Rummies have bright red noses, and all fish swimming around happy. Also cardinals, rams, dwarf flags and hatchets in the tank.... Whats going on? I know it may have been the new fish or the water change that caused it, but what is IT ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Unless I just have a curse. I advertised the Rummies on trademe last week. They didn't sell, but seriously? Had 10, and have had for months, and I advertise them and they start dropping like flies???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 The cardinals must have had something the other guys weren't immune to...did you quarantine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Do the first waterchange for yonks (only about 25 litres, in a 170 litre tank) on Saturday How long is yonks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 No I didn't quarantine, please don't lecture, don't think I am not kicking myself for it anyway, its too late now. Would like to find out WHATS wrong and what I could do to help. Yonks, ummm, maybe 2-3 months? Gets water topups though. And heaps of plants in there. Had tested the nitrates back then prior to a water change and they were fine, so thought the tank was sitting at a relative equilibrium with all the plants. I think I have lost cardinals too. I think I had 18 plus 2 neons and can only count 16 total now. Going to cry soon at the thought all my fish are going to die Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yonks, ummm, maybe 2-3 months? Hi Rozski That is yonks There may be people who disagree but IMO that's way too long between water changes. All of my tanks, and some have been running for years, get at least a 25% waterchange or more a week. The longest I've ever left a tank without a water change is two weeks and I felt guilty as :lol: I've been told that I could leave them for longer but water changes are all part of the hobby and I enjoy doing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 I doubt lack of water changes is the reason though. Rummies noses are still bright and I believe they'd go dull if water quality was an issue? plus the fact they are now dropping dead AFTER I did a change... Have seen some on here that don't water change that often either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Most of my tanks only get waterchanges 1 every 2 weeks, Because they dont have complete lids and heaps of water evaporates. So im just forever toping them up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yeah, I know :oops: ...I'm a bit of a stickler for water changes :lol: Sunday is put aside for tank cleaning and water changes and it takes me all day if I let it :lol: And you're right, it doesn't explain sudden deaths. I don't think it was the water change causing shock either because it was only 15%.....unless the water was contaminated somehow? Just a thought. It is most likely that it's been caused by the Cardinals introducing something but, I'm sorry, I have no idea what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Just did a check, same results as always: pH 6.5 Ammonia and Nitrites both 0 Nitrates at about 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 pH is fine, the only one I'd be worried about is nitrate, but if you say it's alway been those figures, it should be ok. I think we can rule out that the water change was the issue. So, the new fish: I doubt it's parasites - they have only been added a week ago, and I'd expect parasites to either take longer to take hold or to show visible signs before killing the fish. My guess is some sort of virus; or a bacteria. It's pretty hard to treat with no symptoms... You haven't noticed the fish breathing harder or anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 They are very sensitive to chlorine,also 6.5ph is 3 times more acidic than 6.8ph which is what they prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Since when? Rummynose tetras come from Blackwater streams and rivers dont they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted October 1, 2008 Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Chlorine could be an issue, but it was only a 15% water change, so I wouldn't have thought it would have been to noticeable. And if the pH has been stable, the you wouldn't expect different species to die... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thanks for the thoughts guys I am guessing virus or bacteria too... Checked the breathing just before, everything in the big tank is breathing fine. Have transferred the remaining 5 rummies (damn quick buggers) into my nano tank, as it was empty and they seemed the hardest species hit. They are breathing a bit quicker, but they are in a new tank now. Really hoping its not something as nasty as columnaris, tho there are no external signs (and I have looked closely) but says online it can occasionally show no signs... but would they look sick? My fish are seriously bright. The male ram is actually looking reading for breeding again in all his colour. Water came from outside bucket that had stood prior to being used. And as to pH, its always low, and I think thats ok due to having the rams and cardinals which also like it a bit lower. Bristlenoses are the wild card here too, they are the hardiest fish in the tank and were dead. Fingers crossed for no more deaths PS. Just did a small water change, 20 L, as it couldn't hurt. Might continue to do so for the next few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Its columnaris Rummies are showing that characteristic saddleback lesion now. And one of the cardinals in my big tank has one too. Have ordered some soluble doxycyline to try and treat with, should be here tomorrow. Time to go huddle in a corner and feel like crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Time to go huddle in a corner and feel like crap... Don't feel too bad....at least you learned a lesson re: quarintining and hopefully others, and I include myself, will have learned how important it is also by reading your thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Don't feel too bad....at least you learned a lesson re: quarintining and hopefully others, and I include myself, will have learned how important it is also by reading your thread. Me too! im keeping a 30L tank for quarantine from now on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Sorry to hear about this Just did some googling to find out about it, you say your using doxy where did you get that info from? http://network.bestfriends.org/friends_ ... /5401.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Just picked up some aquarium salt and Melafix to help out as well. Hopefully it will stick to the cardinals and rummies only and not jump to the flags, rams or hatchets. ryanjury, the Maracyn mentioned in that article contains a form of tetracyline. I do not think we can get Maracyn in NZ, and so I thought getting another form of tetracycline would be the next best thing, and something soluble like the doxycycline I am getting sounded appropriate. I spoke to the the guy who deals with the fish at our LFS (who I knew before he worked there too) and he agreed with its use. I am not just going to dump it in my big tank either. Only one cardinal in there today that showed signs and I have taken it out, so will see what else happens and go from there. Starting with the Melafix and salt first. But as to what antibiotic to use, the info on the net ranges very widely lol. The name Maracyn was what kept popping up though, and Maracyn 2 seems to be recommended for columnaris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 i seem to recall somebody else having problems recently with cardinals from the lfs that had columnaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozski Posted October 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Neons I think, theres a thread further down the Disease forums 1st page Just tonic salted and melafixed. Man I am scared to put stuff in my tank lol. I'm thinking... all at once? All that salt? I dissolved 4 tablespoons and have put that in. Will add the other 3T later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Depends on which site you acquire the info from Dixon1990. Wikipedia says 5.6ph - 7.4ph temp up to 33C, while Age of Aquariums say 6.8ph and 26C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted October 2, 2008 Report Share Posted October 2, 2008 Well i have seen them in pics of Blackwater in the wild and there a few species so could require different ph levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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