farmchick Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 I have set up a new tank and run it for a week or so with a new filter but existing media from an old but running filter. Put a few new inhabitants in and ran it for another week. Tested the water and all was good. I shifted everyone else and last night the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite were all off the charts. I did a 50 to 60% water change and everything seemed okay. But I tested it again this morning and while the nitrate and nitrite are much better, the ammonia is still really bad No-one is gasping at the surface nor lost colour but they are swimming up and down in the bubbles from the bubble walls which to me indicates a lack of oxygen?. Can I have too much filtration perhaps? It is a 4ft 220 litre tank and I have got an Aqua One 2400 filter going. The water is crystal clear and the tank looks a million dollars but something is wrong somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Still not enough good bacteria. The filter is only a portion of the good bacteria. the rest is in the gravel. so with the addition of so many fish at one time...this happens. keep up the water changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Hi Add cycle or stress zyme..Millions of bactera per tea spoon .if Ph above 7 then ammonia is not the same..Changes to nano-ammonia and not so toxic..Nitrites still need keeping below 20ppm with water changes..Second week usually a lot better..Chin up...Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Even though you used established filters, setting it up with sterile decor and new water will cause a mini-cycle. You probably should have waited a little longer and added the fish more gradually, or tried to use as much old water as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi Without any fish in the new tank filter bactera will not actually grow. It must have the ammonia to feed on..If no fish for the first week thats why it spiked in second week but thats normal.... Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmchick Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi Add cycle or stress zyme..Millions of bactera per tea spoon .if Ph above 7 then ammonia is not the same..Changes to nano-ammonia and not so toxic..Nitrites still need keeping below 20ppm with water changes..Second week usually a lot better..Chin up...Phill Thanks all, I did use about half the existing water but obviously not enough :oops: And it was all new gravel :-? Interesting re the amonia and the relation to high PH. Mine is sitting at about 8, so will the amonia reading I am getting actually be acurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi PH is often wrong results if just a liguid tester..We use a digital PH meter frm dick smith ltd or others..Extremely reliable..Have buffer to set at 7.. 8 PH usually will mean a lot of lime added by water treatment plant.. Most fish are not going to worry tho.. Meters are $75 or there abouts and no guess work..Some testers have a set range like..6.8 to 7.4 is one very common.. Your ammonia is likely to test wrong to i feel..But nitrite is far more dangerous..So just do water changes from hot water tap as heating removes chlorine..Bit often is best...........Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmchick Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 thanks Phil, luckily we are on tank water so there are no added nasties, it is however usualy fairly soft. The Malawis are loving the PH but not so much the nitrates/ites and ammonia Will do another water change tonight and see how they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadeusus Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Ammonia test kits measure combined ammonia and ammonium, thats NH3 and NH4+ ions respectively. At pH <7 (i.e more acidic) more of the ammonia/ammonium will be in the NH4+ form which is less toxic than the NH3 ammonia form. If ammonia is a problem you need more acidic water so that a greater proportion is in the NH4+ form rather than the NH3 form. Ammonia is very toxic and will absorb straight through gill cell membranes because it is unionised. Ammonium is less toxic but will still cause respiratory problems and gill irritation at very low ppm levels. The test kit will give you a total NH3 and NH4+ level, but combined with your pH there should be a chart that tells you how much is ionised (NH4+) and howmuch unionised (NH3). Nitrite is also toxic but at slightly higher levels and for a different reason - it forms methaemoglobin in the fish blood stream and cuts down on the oxygen carrying capacity. Neither ammonia/ammonium or nitrite is particularly good for your fish. Water changes necessary until the filter bacteria get up to enough numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 H You said Tank Water..If rain then your tester is no good as NZ Rain is 6.5PH..I have 75000 L and thats all i use for about all but add baking soda and calcum to malawi tanks...Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 H You said Tank Water..If rain then your tester is no good as NZ Rain is 6.5PH..I have 75000 L and thats all i use for about all but add baking soda and calcum to malawi tanks...Phill Rain water sitting in a concrete tank can have a higher ph, also her tank ph might be higher because she might have some buffering rocks or substate in there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 My tank water has always tested dead on 7.0 when I've tested it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 i was about to type up almost exactly what cadeusus said, but was beaten to it... just keep up the water changes mate and itll all settle down in a wee while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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