phoenix44 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I want a 50 foot tank with 500 Altums. I do not ask for much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Neither of those are subspecies of anything, both separate species, what am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 *edit* Mark I understand now, I wasn't looking at your post in reference to the one above it, perhaps I should get some sleep... :lol: Pterophyllum altum, also referred to as the Altum Angelfish, Deep Angelfish, or Orinoco Angelfish,[1] occurs strictly in the Orinoco River Basin and the Upper Rio Negro watershed in Southern Venezuela, Southeastern Colombia and extreme Northern Brazil. LOL so my "peru altums" from you-know-who (search trademe for 'peru altums') are most likely just regular P. sclare (or maybe even hybrids). I should try get some pics of them and get someone who actually knows what they're talking about to ID them.... Does this pretty much sum up what you're talking about Mark? Same could nearly be said for the red devil/midas senario, and a heck of a lot of fish in the hobby today; Most strains of angelfish available in the fishkeeping hobby are the result of many decades of selective breeding. For the most part, the original crosses of wild angelfish were not recorded and confusion between the various species of Pterophyllum, especially P. scalare and P. leopoldi, is common. This makes the origins of "Domestic angelfish" unclear. Domestic strains are most likely a collection of genes resulting from more than one species of wild angelfish combined with the selection of mutations in domesticated lines over the last 60 or more years. The result of this is a domestic angelfish that is a true hybrid with little more than a superficial resemblance to wild Pterophyllum species. It would be inaccurate to say that they accurately represent any species of wild angelfish, although they most resemble P. scalare and are frequently referred to as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Hey David, have a look here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37504 and let me know if pic 1 and 2 of my post look like your peruvians. A friend of mine from work got these guys off him, and he gave them to me a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 from the wiki page i posted "The species may show red spotting and a bluesih green dorsal overcast when mature and when aroused exhibits a black operculum spot. Characteristic of this species is an acute incision or notch above the nares (supraorbital indention). All true Orinoco Altum specimens show this trait, whereas commercial hybrids product of crosses to Pterophyllum scalare, that are occasionally performed by breeders to sell them as "Orinoco Altum", may not exhibit the trait or it may appear in a lesser degree." should be easy to tell on mature fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 http://finarama.com/tba/chronicles/peruvianscalare.htm Its amazing what you can find and learn with a little Google search, it seems likely that the "peruvian altums" are actually a variety/subspecies of P. sclare, and should probably just be called Pterophyllum Sp. cf. sclare until confirmed one way or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 seen that site.. it just confused me even more. :lol: the "Real" altums have this real nice yellow-blue-orange colour in their fins. That's what I wanted, lol. like in the wiki link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 real altums look like they have their nose stuckout like they are sneering at those common angels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I like that look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 seen that site.. it just confused me even more. I'm glad I'm not the only one thats confused. Looks like we all on a learning curve tonight. thanks to all for the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 after all that info muzz i think it means you can breed the angels you want to get the look you want:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 But just call them Pterophyllum Sp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 LOL thanks Guys It's so hard to get right when your a novice but asking questions is allways a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go4itgirl Posted April 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hi all After the discussion progressed to angels etc I finally found some time to add these few pics. the babies are what mine looked like when I got them and they have since changed into the yellow ones. Very typical ciclid look with the elongated fins on the male and the lips are definitely 'botoxed' full in fact more so than these photos show. there does seem to be many variations even so with these cichlids the photos came via the web from midas-cichlid.com Can anyone advise definitely on these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 They [the fish in those photos] are definitely most likely a mix of Amphilophus labiatus and citrinellus (red devil/midas). That is about as definite as you can get unless the fish come with a habitat collection source from a reputable seller, and anyone who tells you otherwise is kidding themselves. If you're going to sell them I'd suggest calling them either midas cichlid or red devil, Amphilophus Sp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go4itgirl Posted April 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 thank you very much. Yes I now have heaps of these guys all growing at a very rapid rate. Live food for something anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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