phoenix44 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 people that have them know others that have them. its like a little secret society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 lol yeah I can guarantee anyone who has them knows someone else who has them so they never loose them, or like everything rare you go balls to the wall to breed them asap and get back ups so you never loose them.. The funny thing is people have "had them" for a long time now yet I have never seen anyone sell one that has been bred, they must have lists of people lined up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 So im guessing they are not imported any more ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 not imported and are banned i think. over mining caused their natural populations to become endangered, or close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 All the more reason those who have them should breed them and get them back out there - give a little back to whats been taken from nature. :roll: :-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 apparently there's a market for them to be exported. So thats a possibility but I've also heard rumored in the past of a breeder having big losses or maybe lost the lot? other possibility is theyre getting bred up but just havent been made available to all yet. but yea not sure really i would have thought they'd be well and truly available by now. same with hifin bns, theyre prolific breeders but still hard to come by something fishy about the hobby in this country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 they were inbred out of desperation and it got to the point where even the weak were bred and that ruined many strains.now i believe there are 3-4 good strains left in the country. Some of the weak ones couldn't even handle water changes,they stayed thin,cranial cavities were visible.wouldn't fatten up. Although there are no survivorsthat( bred to my knowledge of the original fish) that we could buy for $150 a while ago. Sorry for typing errors,have used phone to type this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Well i want some again, so if anyone is on here and reading this thread and inclined to add even more to the diversity of owners to ensure continuance, please PM me. Here is a pic to remind us all how lovely they are;- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 not imported and are banned i think. over mining caused their natural populations to become endangered, or close to it. Xingu dam is being built as we speak has been given the green light the Brazilian govt in their madness has decided to build a dam right where these buggas live , for wealth one would imajine, and at the same time ban exports of them to so call "protect the species " but the dam will prety much wipe out any remaining wild stock its not a good scenario There are succesful breedings overseas but as yet we cannot import any as it needs to be MAF approved which takes ALOT of time as their wheels turn slower than most which is bizzare as in the 80s we had them here so its not like they are a new import people that have them know others that have them. its like a little secret society not quite but i suppose to the outside world it would seem this way they are rare and expensive and i know ppl are gonna say well i own a $2000 arowana and i let ppl know i have it yeah but when was the last time someone bred an arowana in captivity in nz and not everyone has the space for a 3ft fish anyway so i think the ppl who do have them are being precautious until they have bred them and have some to sell also those ppl would probably do similar to me with the queen arabs and sell any offspring to comitted breeders to keep thm in the country not just flick em on trade me . there is the posssibilty that whatever remaining stock there is are all juvenile or all male maybe, but i respect their wishes . its easy for some ppl to sit heer and say "oh id tell the world " and im sure these ppl would love too aswell . but i do wonder how many of those ppl would do so right now if they owned these fish in their present circumstance and had shelled out probably $1000s of dollars to aquire them . would you ? and i suppose you would invite every Tom,dick, and Harry to come round and look at them , come on guys you would be a little secret about who you told aswell ,dont get upset by it just respect the breeders investment and hope they are able to breed them personally i do note that the pleco is a very sort after species i dont see a sticky for "what guppies do own " and with good reason thers alot of money in these fish to buy and look after i find it interesting that on the most aprt the ppl that are interested in who owns exotic ones dont own many themselves rant over havent posted in a while guess this will start the reason why i dont post much anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 After a rant like that good job too :lol: (just kidding) - but I do think a lot of what you have said is somewhat out of context and unjustfied. And it stands to reason that the people asking about things are the ones who dont have them - or else how would they acquire them ? There are a lot of people concerned about the state of our hobby at the moment, and willing to try and help it, but who face obstacles all the way because others, for whatever reason, seem unwilling to be involved. Its the reason why such a big chunk of what we DID have is no longer on MAF's list - because people kept quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 oh no... you should post more! you have awesome some awesome plecos!!! :bounce: (and you know so much about them!) i used to know someone who had a few zebras and she just said it was not worth all the heartache to let other people know that she has them. she used to get calls from strangers who wanted to see them, breeders offering her money for them. rude remarks from people when she said they were not for sale etc... etc. quite sad really... its the same reason i suppose people that have not so common reptiles like tortoises etc. keep it low key. not worth taking the risk, and there are some pretty sad people out there that resort to stealing stuff and pressure tactics. very sad really. I do agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 After a rant like that good job too :lol: (just kidding) - but I do think a lot of what you have said is somewhat out of context and unjustfied. And it stands to reason that the people asking about things are the ones who dont have them - or else how would they acquire them ? There are a lot of people concerned about the state of our hobby at the moment, and willing to try and help it, but who face obstacles all the way because others, for whatever reason, seem unwilling to be involved. Its the reason why such a big chunk of what we DID have is no longer on MAF's list - because people kept quiet. " hey aquatopia i agree with what you have said it just " tears my nightie " that some ppl wanna know whos got what and how many and where and how but have no intetion of trying to breed them or increase the population of them like you said "its the reason why such a big chunk of what we did have is no longer on mafs list " and it wasnt all that ppl kept quiet it was also that ppl wanted to own one but not try and breed one ,in the 80s ppl had these fish maybe only one but never bred them or tried to and kept quiet about them didnt do reaserch on how to look after them and lost them thats alot different to comitted breeders simply being precatious about who they tell now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 oh no... you should post more! you have awesome some awesome plecos!!! :bounce: (and you know so much about them!) i used to know someone who had a few zebras and she just said it was not worth all the heartache to let other people know that she has them. she used to get calls from strangers who wanted to see them, breeders offering her money for them. rude remarks from people when she said they were not for sale etc... etc. quite sad really... its the same reason i suppose people that have not so common reptiles like tortoises etc. keep it low key. not worth taking the risk, and there are some pretty sad people out there that resort to stealing stuff and pressure tactics. very sad really. I do agree. yep and recently .... unfortunatley i have had the same issues point and case sad but true i have now had to pretty much stop opening up my fishroom to anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 yep and recently .... unfortunatley i have had the same issues point and case sad but true i have now had to pretty much stop opening up my fishroom to anyone Oh Mr Plec - do you mean that you have had your plecs taken? If so I am disgusted that anyone would do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 edited - quote mr pleco, sorry Phoenix it just " tears my nightie " that some ppl wanna know whos got what and how many and where and how but have no intetion of trying to breed them or increase the population of them like you said " id have to disagree i think 99% of nz's who want these would want to breed them...for most of us its not really a case of knowing whos got what and how many but more a case of where can we purchase them sorry to hear youve had to rethink about opeing your fish room to people. ive done the same with my small collection of reptiles. Even though most of mine are common some times people have no idea and try there luck resulting in a negative spin off for all who mean well. keep positive and keep breeding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Oh Mr Plec - do you mean that you have had your plecs taken? If so I am disgusted that anyone would do this. yeah adodge didnt get away with it but lets just say a "person ' came round and looked to buy some plecs arranged a day that i was kinda busy but anyway long story short they left without buying. i went out, but forgot something, came back home to get it and found them back on my property about to go in the "fishroom " their excuse was oh forgot my "plastic bag " funny thing was they didnt bring any ...hence to say they left empty handed but it made me revisit my security measures shame but shows you whats out there thats why i understand the committed breeders stance on secrecy and as much as i hate to say it this forum is not exactly fort knox i am hopeful that we dont hide ideas from each other and id like to think i help anyone who asks anything about plecos but even thou i may know where some zebra plecos are i aint gonna tell anyone its not my right and i dont know how it helps the hobby unless that person wants ppl to know id have to disagree i think 99% of nz's who want these would want to breed them oh how i wish that was true the last known zebra was a female and it was on its own in a tank on the NTh shore of Auckland the person had it for quite some time and only sold it last year on TM another one was a person sold a complete colony some years ago which had been bred and the new owner lost the lot in a month theres a big difference between "wanting to own" and" knowing what to do "with these guys but heres hoping that somewhere someone is succesfully breeding them because thats something i dont know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 yeah adodge didnt get away with it but lets just say a "person ' came round and looked to buy some plecs arranged a day that i was kinda busy but anyway long story short they left without buying. i went out, but forgot something, came back home to get it and found them back on my property about to go in the "fishroom " their excuse was oh forgot my "plastic bag " funny thing was they didnt bring any ...hence to say they left empty handed but it made me revisit my security measures shame but shows you whats out there im sorry to hear that mr plec - i guess im a bit naiive at times as i had no idea anyone would be that low :evil: And I take your earlier point that some people just wanted to keep 'one' of a species and not breed it. Its a shame that everyone gets tarred with the same brush often enough though, because there are those out there willing to try and breed and keep things going. Perhaps this is a good juncture to make a suggestion that anyone who is genuinely interested enough in the hobby to breed and contribute back, should consider joining a club ? At least that would be an indication of real enthusiasm - I'm even contemplating doing that myself. Having said that there will be those who feel they should not have to do that to be considered genuine. But the NZ Herps Soc wont give out information about sourcing herps unless you are a member. Maybe thats the way fishkeeping will go too - or at least for the serious stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 its amazing how many MORE contacts and infomation you can get IF you do join a club . There are two in christchurch, take your pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 its amazing how many MORE contacts and infomation you can get IF you do join a club . There are two in christchurch, take your pick Thanks Paul - have been thinking about it for the past month or so, and I will check em both out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr pleco Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 some people just wanted to keep 'one' of a species and not breed it. Its a shame that everyone gets tarred with the same brush often enough though, because there are those out there willing to try and breed and keep things going. yep and although from time to time i cop a bit of flak over it this is i guess what im trying to say when i stated before " if you have one in mind adodge why not post a question in here and whatever pleco ppl come in will answer it for you thought that was what the forum was for ? its not to stop ideas or stem the flow of knowledge its just that the serious breeders soon make themselves known and thru pm etc comitted breeders can shift the first batches onto other breeders for security rather than being bombarded by one off fish buyers dont get me wrong we need both sorts but like with my L270 and L066 i made sure other breeders got first pick of lots of 4 0r 5 before i started single fish selling , and i think thats what point i was trying to make . maybe given time these awesome fish will suddenly invade the market , that would be awesome . better start saving our pennies ,last one i saw sold for $800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 id have to disagree i think 99% of nz's who want these would want to breed them...for most of us its not really a case of knowing whos got what and how many but more a case of where can we purchase them sorry to hear youve had to rethink about opeing your fish room to people. ive done the same with my small collection of reptiles. Even though most of mine are common some times people have no idea and try there luck resulting in a negative spin off for all who mean well. keep positive and keep breeding.. It wasn't me that said that matt, :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 yep and although from time to time i cop a bit of flak over it this is i guess what im trying to say when i stated before " its not to stop ideas or stem the flow of knowledge its just that the serious breeders soon make themselves known and thru pm etc comitted breeders can shift the first batches onto other breeders for security rather than being bombarded by one off fish buyers dont get me wrong we need both sorts but like with my L270 and L066 i made sure other breeders got first pick of lots of 4 0r 5 before i started single fish selling , and i think thats what point i was trying to make . maybe given time these awesome fish will suddenly invade the market , that would be awesome . better start saving our pennies ,last one i saw sold for $800 the Chocolate Zebras i got from you are making all the right signs and i hope they will be spawning soon, but would still love some black&whites and i sure would do all i could to breed them too ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It wasn't me that said that matt, :lol: sure sure lol, not sure how i did that, just testing ya :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 the quote thing does that occasionally when you quote someone who has quoted someone else :lol: I read it, and I was like, wait... "that doesnt sound like a phrase i would use" :lol: :lol: oh well haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 its not to stop ideas or stem the flow of knowledge its just that the serious breeders soon make themselves known and thru pm etc comitted breeders can shift the first batches onto other breeders for security rather than being bombarded by one off fish buyers dont get me wrong we need both sorts but like with my L270 and L066 i made sure other breeders got first pick of lots of 4 0r 5 before i started single fish selling , and i think thats what point i was trying to make . maybe given time these awesome fish will suddenly invade the market , that would be awesome . better start saving our pennies ,last one i saw sold for $800 Thats fair enough - not sure your post really implied that in the first place, so its good you explained it a bit further, as from that angle its a bit more understandable. I like those King Tigers Mr Pleco, and in the absence of my favourite plec the L270s are a close favourite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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