Disease, death, death and more death

[nzlass]

I’m really new to fish and was told to get the tank as i get too attached to the furry pet kinds!!! I am really hoping someone can help I have had such contrasting information over the last 5 months! Sorry it’s long winded but i need help!

I set up a new tank In December, its 31.5L and it has a filtration system. After 2-3 weeks we got a really small fantail and a small Black Moore. After 3 days the black Moore looked 'raggy' I explained this to animates (where I got the fish) what the fish looked like and was told it would be fin rot so they sold me this dark blue tonic? So we did a 30% water change and then by the 3rd day of treatment my poor little fish was horrid looking and a friend who keeps fish said that since he had stopped swimming and looked so bad it would be best to freeze him! Apparently humane!

So we did that and then after we were sure he passed we flushed him. Then we got told that it was bacteria he had so to clean it good, we did about a 50% water change, i took out all the larger pebbles, took out plastic plants, bought a gravel vacuum, cleaned gravel. I was told to throw out the carbon filter filer and just use Dacron type stuff.

We stuck to our one fantail for a long time maybe 3 weeks (kept up water changes. got a plant and an ornament for him to hide in) and he was happy. We when wanted to get him a friend so i got a comet and he was so fun and energetic. We had Ron (the comet) for about 9 days the Nemo (the fantail) started to not swim. At that stage we had been feeding them every other day - a pinch at the most.

So I then got told i needed oxy weed, so I got that and only cut feeds to every 3rd day. Things were fine for about 7 days then Nemo started floating on his side. With in 3 days Nemo died. NO white spots, no split fins, no bulging body parts - Just a need to stay low and hide by the plants away from the current.

That was 4 weeks ago. We came the conclusion it was bad fish from animates. Then on 6th March as a gift I was given the best looking little Oranda??? She was lovely and came from a tank at work. She was bigger than Ron but still small in size. After 5 days she started hanging out at the top of the tank looking like she was drinking from the top. I got told that meant there was not enough oxygen and was told an oxygen shell would do. After 2 days still no change and by this stage Ron had stared hanging out the top too so i bought new oxyweed, air pump and air stone.

After 2 days there was no change and by that night she had gone down hill a lot - she had begun floating upside down, gasping motions, then on her side being pushed about by the current. I had planned to get a remedy as I was told she had dropsy?? But alas by morning she had died.

So then I was told my water must be all wrong and was told to buy a test kits after doing it 5 times (the results would run together) I got accurate reading I googled the levels and everything matched up. I assumed it must have been some shock for her going from my work tank to my small tank.

Ron was happy and energetic as normal but did continue to lurk at top of tank briefly. However this morning he looked dead I moved the tank to get a better look and then he started zapping around as normal I left the bubbles on and went to work - when I came home again he looked dead but I put on the lights and moved the tank back and he swam around for a good 1hour at least. But alas again he looks like he we will die - he is staying low by the gravel away from current, no spots, splits, bulging, my fish keeping friend text and told me to put 2 teaspoons of tonic salt and I have done this. He didn't move much when I put it in. I am sure he will have passed by the time I go down in the morning.

Ok so there it is its massive and long winded - but all you help will be greatly appreciated as I think I will have to give up soon! They may be fish but I am quite attached to them all and I am not sure how many more I can lose. What am I doing wrong?!?!

[sandysme]

Are you using any type of aqua plus or water ager when you first set up and when you are doing water changes?

[georgeous]

Hey there,

Don't buy any more fish until you have found out what the proplem(s) are.

Carbon filter media will suck out the meds - so remove while treating fish.

There has been a lot of debate going on abot the best way to euthanase (sp?) a fish. I think we have decided that freezing a fish is painful (to the fish) because ice crystals form in the fish's bloodstream before they lose conscious. I think we also have decided that uh whacking the poor fishy on concrete etc. or putting a sharp knife through its spine just behind the head are two acceptible ways of euthanising fish. Others will, of course, disagree with me.

Also, as Sandy has said, how often and how big are your water changes?

To get more oxygen into the water you need to have a fair amount of surface area and/or disturbance. Air bubbles, from an air stone, don't actually directly affect the oxygen levels in the water.

HTH

George

[Loopy]

First off Welcome nzlass!

I am sorry you have had a bad start to keeping fishys.

You will surely get lots of help and advise here so hopefully we can work out what is going on with your fish and tank.

I gather you have been very disheartened by all this , probably feel like you have spent way more than you would have liked and perhapes a bit overwhelmed by all the info you will be given.

I can't actually see where things may be going wrong but perhapes someone else can.

*i really must learn to spell check my posts before i hit submit :roll: *

[Caryl]

Wow, sorry to hear you have been having problems.

First, 31L is not really big enough to keep goldfish. They produce a big amount of waste and are very messy. Comets need a lot more room to swim too.

I wonder if the original ragged fins was a result of ammonia poisoning. No way to tell at this stage now.

How is Ron now?

[Stella]

Hi there,

What a bad run! So hard starting out when it feels like you need to know everything at once.

I have had fish for years and had a perfect run for the last year, then ofer the last 2.5 months I lost so many fish in weird and awful (and largely unrelated) ways. So makes you feel like packing it in.

Caryl is probably right about the size of the tank. (she knows a lot about keeping goldfish and is always full of good advice )

I would really recommend finding someone in Christchurch on the forum (there are heaps) who can come over and have a look at your set up and give you some more personal advice.

[nzlass]

First of thank you everyone for getting back to me so quickly! Well Ron’s not died yet - he is just as lifeless as last night but he does move (moves him self to different areas of tank before resting) I left the bubbles off as i read somewhere last night that if your fish is sick the swimming exhausts them and too much current in the water will wear them down

When i do water changes I take probably just a little less than a 3rd and i try to get the tap water the same temp as the tank. Every time I do a main water change I put about 1ml off api stress coat and stress zyme. I do a change every 7 days roughly. As I said up to now Ron was funny how healthy and happy he was but now ... well I just don’t know! This morning I took I did about 5-10% of water change. Ron’s still just hanging about all fins down flat. And to be honest yeah it is all very overwhelming - problem is i get too attached!

[Caryl]

Anyone in ChCh and knows about goldfish able to visit nzlass and help?

Clamped fins are a sign of stress.

I can't see that you have done anything wrong. Although the tank had to cycle when you set it up, you did not overstock. Your feeding is good and so are the water changes. It could be at least one of the new additions had a disease and has spread it to the others

[nzlass]

So today I spoke to a really good place down here (which since i had bother elsewhere everyone tells me is the only place to go) Redwood Aquatics. He told me the pants also could be dying (as it stopped growing) so to take them out. He said if i bring Ron in on Saturday he have a good look and see if there’s anything he can suggest.

So now my tank is empty! A few big pebbles, one car ornament and gravel - do you think its worth taken him on Saturday if he is still alive and should i try get a new oxyweed plant tonight? HE just looks miserable and now hanging out at the top of tank but alive - should i put the light on or not? Also the test kit I have is only for GH, KH, pH, NO2 & NO3 what else could I be testing for? IS there a general pick me up i could buy while i work out whats wrong with him?

[Stella]

This may seem a funny question, but what does the water smell like? Nothing, organic, chemical, noxious?

[Stella]

And what is the temperature like?

[nzlass]

Smell - well not nothing I cant really explain it very slight musty smell I guess??? :-? (I have strong sence of smell so not sure as never had fish before if thats what its meant to smell like) as for tempreture mild normally a tad colder but is a really hot day here today.

[Caryl]

It is worth taking him in for someone to look at.

[Caper]

What is the temp in your tank?

Before you put anything in your tank did you give things a really good cleaning, cleaning meaning just water NO soap 8)

Caper

[jolliolli]

Hi NZlass,

sorry to hear of all your troubles, could you post up your readings from your test kits, mainly pH, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia, temperature so we can rule out any problems. Redwood aquatics is a very good store, so is Organism so definitely worth checking out, John out organism is very helpful and might have some suggestions also. i would definitely be wary of taking advice from some of the franchise pet stores as often it can be incorrect or they sell you something to try and make money (ie you dont' need the stress coat or water ager chemicals in chch as the water is so good).

Also some advice about dead and dying fish, there is some debate as to whether freezing is actually that humane... if you can bear it its better to whack them over the head or sever their spinal cord by cutting vertically just where their 'neck' would be if they had one.

I wonder if they are having trouble with swim bladder disorder caused by some sort of bacterial infection, do they swim with their head up or head down?

[nzlass]

Hey Caper - yeah always gave things a really good wash (no soap) before going in the tank

jolliolli - thanks for suggestions, i actually went out to that Organisms place but i guess i felt like a twat :oops: going in so much over goldfish - i mean i know small children that seem to do so much better job and have the fish for years!

As for results the test kit gave me GH 180 KH 40 ph 8 NO2 - 0 NO3 - 20, i dont have amonia test kit or tempreture gage

Anyway its all a bit late Ron died on Friday morning so i think im going to give up for a while i'm a bit wrecked from trying to save all my fish! It's physically and emotionally draining (im realy girly about these things)

As for before um Molly (the oranda that i got just before ron went down hill) floated head down. As for Nemo he kinda just went side ways. I dont know but i think I killed Ron, after Molly died i tried taken out anything and everything I could think had made them sick.

I always gave my hands a good scrub under the cold water but I was incredibly sick around that time and i wonder If i may have passed it on to them? Anyway you guys have all been awesome i am only sorry i didn't try comming here first - but again thanks for time and effort to everyone who put a post

[Caper]

Ah, don't give up. I know it's hard loosing fish, I've shed many a tear over loosing some of my fishies.

Do some more reading, ask more questions and in time you'll have fish just you wait and see.

Caper

[jolliolli]

pH may have been a problem, 8 is quite high for goldfish its getting, they prefer 6.5 - 7.5, i wonder if that caused some problems, does your test kit go higher than 8?

One thing that makes me wonder with that reading is what you are using as your grave substrate, some gravels are reallly designed for use with cichlids and i wonder if you've accidentally got some of that gravel, what does the gravel look like, does it have a name and where did you get it from?

[Caper]

assumed it must have been some shock for her going from my work tank to my small tank

Just read through again and wondering if you have been acclimatizing your fish before putting them in your tank?

jollioilli, if she were putting the fish right in the tank is it possible that it's coming from a tank with a lower pH and that would cause major problems???

Caper

[ryanjury]

I think goldfish are commonly kept in high Ph's as sometimes the concrete ponds leach.. However it may have been ph shock leading to stress or something like that, were the fish aclimitized?

Don't give up its not that hard, maybe clean our your tank and start again get someone local to come out and have a look at your setup see if they can see any problems and find a breeder who has some goldfish WCMM or even get a small heater and try tropical, buy from a breeder and goto their house and see their tanks gleen as much info as you can from them! Buying from a breeder or hobbiest means your more likely to get healthy stock because when your a beginner you don't really know what to look for in shops and can buy problems..

[Caryl]

Goldfish don't seem to care much what their pH is, as long as it is stable.

[jolliolli]

yes you're right caryl, just wondered if like caper suggested it was a sudden pH shock, although i assume you would probably see a quicker death... pH was the only thing that looked a little unusual in the test results

[goldfish]

hi NZLASS first thing when disposing of fish it must be done humanely put 10 drops of clove oil in a dish and put the fish in it dies within seconds. Never freeze its very cruel . AS for the rest you seem to be doing everything to fast first of all let your tank mature for 4 to 5 wks a slow process add bacteria to the tank twice a week STRESS ZYME or INTERPET FILTER START i presume you have this in NZ I myself never use carbon filter pads when using medication they take it out of the water.only add a couple of fish at a time remember this is a SLOW PROCESS I hope this will help GOOD LUCK let me know how you get on and remember DONT overfeed