jolliolli Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Which is quieter in terms of vibration noise, an in-sump skimmer or an out of sump skimmer? Currently i have an Reef Octopus NW-150 in sump skimmer, which produces a low vibration noise. i've tried to reduce the vibration noise by encasing the cupboard in foam, adding neoprene pads to the bottom of the skimmer and skimmer pump but still there is a vibration noise... has anyone used this model of skimmer and then replaced it with another skimmer, if so what model, what improvements did you see and how was the noise? Should this skimmer be sufficient for my tank or should i go bigger. Tank details are 400L tank, around 50kg live rock, lps, sps corals, 2 tangs, mandarin, 2 clowns, lawnmower blenny, sixline wrasse and shrimp. Following on from the skimmer question I seem to constantly be battling cyano on my rocks and sand, i feed once a day about 1/8th tsp of newlife spectrum food plus nori each day. once or twice a week i feed mysid for the sun coral and fish. I've tried the lights out to starve the cyano but it comes back, lights are 2 x 250W MH and 2 x 54W actinics on for around 8 -10 hours a day . Flow is currently 1 6025 nanostream, 2 other small nonbrand powerheads (around 600lph each), ive just purchased a second tunze 6045 a couple of weeks ago which i'll be adding to the system this weekend, return pum is 2500lph. My only two acros i have are starting to colour up with purple tips, lps are nice and fully expanded and a sick brain coral i have is starting to show growth so i would have thought that if nutrients were an issue i wouldn't see this, but still the cyano remains... its really starting to frustrate me and make me wonder if i need a better skimmer, or if something else is likely to be the problem... Any advice appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 have you checked the TDS of your water? yes you should probably up the flow too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 my experience with cyano is that: i had it in my old tank and one day it disappeared only coming back in small quantities after the initial "disappearance" After the upgrad to twice the size and installing 4 stage auto top off unit and a big skimmer 3 pumps R.O i declared on this forum that i was cyano free... and I was.. for about couple of days. then it came back and boy it was back refusing to go and even getting to a pick 3 weeks ago when i started considering the "vodka" solution. I really needed a lot of patients to wait it out and hope it will disappear and again it did about couple of weeks ago. Tank has been without any trace since then strangely as if it was never there. Moral of this long story is: maybe all you need is a bit more patient, in my case i wanted it resolved and balanced the problem the natural way which must be the best way... the most important thing in reefkeeping... patience Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 I think cyano is just one of those stages tanks go through, some people are just lucky and it is not very noticeable or doesn't hit them. Things can help clear it, water movement, skimming, PO4 removal, improving light, turning off lights, vodka, etc etc. But for most people they try lots of different things then suddenly it just goes, often despite some of the things they have done to their tanks! The advice I'd give you is to replace your light bulbs if they are old, replace your skimmer if it is crap, increase your flow (by my calculations (at ~11000lph or about 27 x tank) you are sitting near the bottom end even including the 6045), and look at how much you feed and maybe feed less (having fat fish isn't being kind to them or the tank). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Cyano is caused by having high nutrients in your tank. I have never had major cyano problems and i put this down to water quality, You need more current in your tank, i dont think you have enough, do you use RO or di water? what salt do you use. skimmer is not the greatest but should be ok for your tank. got any photos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Nice to hear the corals are doing well, acros colouring up is a great sign. Lots of skimmers can be a bit noisy, stopping any contact with glass can help. Was the neoprene foam or solid? If solid may not be much help. Several thicknesses of the old style foam mouse pads can do the trick. Cyano is hard to get rid of, and as others have said it can be cyclical. But sometimes cyano and frozen food goes hand in hand. Many years ago I had a sun coral & fed it shredded shellfish. I also had a cyano problem. Then I read that as a % of dry matter, mysis and other frozen foods can have up to 10 x's as much phosphate as some flake and pellet food. Still haven't verified the accuracy of that but anyway I converted my sun coral to eating the same pellet fish food that the fish ate, and surprisingly the sun coral thrived on it, grew, and made new buds. The cyano dissappeared also. No way to know if that was coincidence, but anyway if there is a cyano problem, feeding frozen will tend to keep the cyano going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 have you checked the TDS of your water? yes you should probably up the flow too. no i haven't i will be ordering a tds meter soon, howeve fmxmatt measured his recently and from memory it was 45ppm out of the tap, not great but better than i had expected. i've had the cyano in various stages appearing and disappearing since i've had the tank, around 9 months, at the moment its seems particularly bad, it had disappeared a couple of months ago but i went away on holiday and ever since then its seems to be getting worse. I also seem to have this strange form of cyano where its a pink almost furike growth on the rocks similar to coralline in colour but it pulls off if you scrub it. ahh patience, the great virtue of reefkeepers , how long did you have to wait danpapirany before it seemed to disappear? The advice I'd give you is to replace your light bulbs if they are old bulbs are around 2 - 3 months old, so should be ok, although i don't like the yellowish colour they produce, will be going for a bluer bulb next time.. You need more current in your tank, i dont think you have enough, do you use RO or di water? what salt do you use. got any photos? will try and upload some photos tomorrow.. i have been using tapwater but have just purchased a DI only unit which i'm trying to find some john quest quick connect fittings so i can connect it up. i'm using the red sea salt (standard not pro mix) I converted my sun coral to eating the same pellet fish food that the fish ate, and surprisingly the sun coral thrived on it, grew, and made new buds. good suggestion wasp, it had never occurred to me that i could try feeding pellets, ill try it out and see how it goes. the neoprene is quite a spongey material, however i've found that as it compresses over time it tends to make the skimmer lean on an angle :-? So i should be aiming for more flow, i seem to always have difficulty positioning the powerheads, either they seem to blow my lps or sand around the place or don't direct enough flow to the rockwork and sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 memory it was 45ppm out of the tap, not great but better than i had expected. That is bad should be zero, you are adding nutrients to your tank. that is what is causing your cyano. In a closed ecosystems you have waste produced by the fish/food and then you add more nutrients from your tap water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 ahh patience, the great virtue of reefkeepers , how long did you have to wait danpapirany before it seemed to disappear? cyano stayed last time (after installing big skimmer and water filters) for over a month reaching peak before it disappeared. I suspect that i am adding phosphate by feeding frozen food(I use red sea phosphate tester and it shows low levels, when Chris (cookie) took the same water sample and tested it on his salifert tester it showed above recommended levels) . when i think about it: 12 (smal to medium size)fish in an 900 ltr system with big skimmer (works really well) and 4 stage water filter, cyano should probably not be a problem. Maybe in my case it was an upgraded tank unbalanced syndrome... I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 [That is bad should be zero, you are adding nutrients to your tank. that is what is causing your cyano. yes i know hence the reason i've purchased a DI unit i just need to find the connectors so i can get it working, looks like i might have to order them from the states, unless anyone here knows of a place that sells john guest speedfit connectors. I do think the tap water is a contributing factor, last water change i did the cyano seemed to be worse a day or so later. so i'll be adding the di, adding the other nano, anything else i should look at? increase the flow? suphew you have quite high (compared to mine) turnover, is this mainly via your return or do you have several large powerheads in your tank, think i'll look at replacing the smaller powerheads with a couple of larger ones. Tank is mostly lps with a couple of acros, what do you think would be the ideal turnover rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 So your cyno problem should get better in a month or so, it will take time to remove the nutrients from the rock, nothing happens overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangtastic Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 unless anyone here knows of a place that sells john guest speedfit connectors. Mico Plumbing in Auckland have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 ok heres some photos of my cyano ....., small children avert your eyes :oops: full tank left side right side so you can see the cyano has gotten quite bad, it produces large amounts of small bubbles as well. Since this photo was taken i've mounted one nano on each side of the aquarium. Both nanos are positioned near the front of the tank angled downwards, the two smaller powerheads are both mounted on opposite sides of the back wall at the base of the tank, facing towards the front of the tank, i'm trying to get more flow along the sand to prevent the cyano from building up. Changed my phosphate remover today as well. Also remembered today that i bought a couple of sound dampening pads a couple of weeks ago but hadn't put them in the tank. I've positioned them under the skimmer and its seems to have reduced the vibration noise quite a bit thanks for the heads up tangtastic, i tried mico plumbing world down here but the trade section wasn't open and the other people didn't know what i was talking about so i'll try them again on monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 To be honest, I dont think ur cyano is that bad at all. When its bad, its bad! Red slime on every bit of exposed rock that isn't covered by coralline algae or a coral. I think ur best bet is to get that DI unit up and running asap! If you want, you can borrow my TDS meter? Save you buying one urself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 tank looks dirty to me. xenia is doing well, good sign of high nutrients. I noticed it in my tank, when the xenia was doing very well i had high nutrients. They are not growing very fast at the moment due to my tank being very clean. what bulbs are you using? colour does look yellow. quite a big tank i would add more current, some like a tunze stream 6100. the tunze nanos are too small for tanks that size. I would do a 50% water change. with ro/di water. gravel syphon the sand. check kh/cal as you dont seem to have any corraline algae, reduce the metal halides to 6 hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 thanks for the offer matt, i might borrow it off you but i should probably get one anyway as its probably useful in letting me know when to change the DI resin. tank parameters are (all salifert kits) Calcium 425ppm kH 9.4 Magnesium 1290 Nitrate - 5ppm phosphate reads as zero, though its not. I've just started adding baking soda, mag and calcium regularly to keep the levels up, prior to this my kH was always low around 6ish. Just starting to see some spots of coralling algae growth now I'll reduce the MH lights, im not sure of the bulbs, they came standard with the aquamedic lights. the third pic makes the tnak look really yellow, doesn't look that yellow in real life xenia is growing really well, must be soaking up all those nutrients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 There is a bit of cyano but other than that it's an attractive tank! As far as nutrients go, one thing tht stands out, best I can see the pic anyway, there seems to be a lot of rocks on top of each other with not much flow to blow the dirt out that collects between them. I could be wrong but that's how it looks. The test is to get a powerhead or similar that you can hold in your hand, plug it in and blow out between all the rocks. It will be normal for some crud to come out but if heaps comes out this could be something that could be contaminating the tank and doing something to fix it will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 aww thanks wasp but its definitely not what i would call attractive.. haha . You are completely correct about the rocks sitting on top of each other, when i purchased the tank i didn't have much time to get the rock/corals and fish in to a proper aquascaped look, so ended up with typical 'rockwall' look. Longterm the plans are to actually relocate this tank in to the other room and sell of my discus tank. When that happens i plan on less rock, more space for swimming and some actual proper aquascaping, at the moment none of the corals are acutally adhered to the rock, just sort of positioned in spots... though this is probably quite a few months away. I was really impressed by cookie extremes tank when i visited in january, lots of space for swimming fish, very inspiring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangtastic Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 There is a bit of cyano but other than that it's an attractive tank! As far as nutrients go, one thing tht stands out, best I can see the pic anyway, there seems to be a lot of rocks on top of each other with not much flow to blow the dirt out that collects between them. I could be wrong but that's how it looks. The test is to get a powerhead or similar that you can hold in your hand, plug it in and blow out between all the rocks. It will be normal for some crud to come out but if heaps comes out this could be something that could be contaminating the tank and doing something to fix it will help. Ditto to that. More gaps in the rocks would greatly improve water movement and your fish will appreciate the places to hide in. It is easy to make reef racks with eggcrate and cable ties which you can then stack the rocks on and in front of. This leaves a water space behind the rock work. Your substrate looks fairly chunky. Often it is recommended to go bare bottom for the first six months with a new tank as it will make detritus removal much easier. I would blast all the rock work down once a week with a powerhead. If you can get some Astrea snail they will help. They will eat cyno and their continual grazing of the rock helps stop algae forming. That is no where near a bad case of cyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Often it is recommended to go bare bottom for the first six months with a new tank as it will make detritus removal much easier. I did not do that for my tank. put sand in from day one. Find the best thing is just to use a gravel cleaner. dirt is part of the ecosytem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 have been trying to get some astrea snails, seem quite hard to come by in chch, i've got the spiral shaped snails When i bought my tank around a year ago it had been setup for 1 - 2 years with current sand. I used the original sand from the tank but washed it quite thorougly, i'm now starting to see a bit of life in the sand, little worms, mysis etc. i've always quite enjoyed the look of a sand base (except when its all over it ). I've seen some great designs on RC with rockwork design and eggcrate and its definitely something i'll be researching more once i get to move the tank.... (scares me to think of all the work involved in doing just that..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 UPDATE : got my TDS meter today from ebay so i thought i would test the water here at work (central city) i was surprised came up with a reading of 75ppm which is quite a lot higher than matt's 45ppm. Will be interesting to see what the home reading is and also interesting to see if my DI only unit is purifying the water sufficiently... will keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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