Quite large Koura/Crayfish!

[warrenp]

I'm not sure if anyone here has seen a bigger one than this?? I caught him/her (no eggs so maybe a male?) today in a small culvert pond and it is now residing in the larger of my two mostly native tanks (with a few other smaller crays and various fish etc).

To be honest I was too scared to measure it (i.e. go near it with my finger) before plonking it into the tank, so I'm only guessing the carapace to be about 4cm long, with head to tail measurement of maybe 12.5cm and 16-17cm including nippers. As you can see in the photo his nippers (one of which is deformed with what looks like a second pincer) are much wider than the 10mm glass of the tank. The 20c piece is probably half as far from the camera lens as he is so it won't be in proportion.

Has anyone here ever kept a big koura? I will see how things go and if I start loosing minnows or whitebait/inanga then perhaps he will have to go back to from where he came...

Does anyone know what the largest p. planifrons on record is?

[A.PROPHECY]

i got a big boy in my pond ill get a pik of him when i get the chance

[jayci]

I have cuaght one that was 11-12cm long. But it was black, your one is green. Are there different speices?

[Stella]

Two different species.

Paranephrops planifrons

northern crayfish (north island and nth-west south island

Paranephrops zealandicus - southern crayfish

rest of the south island

The southern one is bigger and hairier. I found it hard to find many hard facts about the differences, lengths or ages. Many basic sources just copy other basic (incorrect) sources and the scientific papers also conflicted with each other.

Crayfish rock

Sadly with one that big you WILL start having trouble with your fish. I started losing fish or them losing dramatic parts of fins when my two crays reached around 7cm each. I put them back once they became a problem, but with a cray that size, hell, keep him in his own tank! What a size!

[warrenp]

Sofar no problems with the fish and this guy... Perhaps he is well into retirement and slowing down, thus unable to muster the speed necessary to surprise an agile young fish. Right now after feeding some mince, a little common (I assume) bully is running rings round him and feeding right beside him without apparent concern. The tank is 250L and 60cm high and most the small fish hang round the floating weeds well out of reach. I will keep him under observation and feed him up well so he hopefully needn't bother the fish...

Nice photos Stella! I think I have a big Red-finned bully (going by all the red) but it looks a lot different from yours... I have noticed that the common bullies (I assume that is what they are) change color depending on their background (i.e, when I take them from the tank and put them in a white plastic container, they are dark at first but then go light in a few minutes). Do you think this one is just a differently colored Red-finned bully? And I assume the little one is a common bully?

[tHEcONCH]

Seems to like that 20 cent piece

[Stella]

Hi Warren,

Yep, that is definitely a redfin bully! Male to be precise. The males are the only ones with the red colouring. Females are just brown but still have those diagonal face stripes (also in brown).

The other one could be a common bully.... a profile picture would help. They have quite a tapered head compared to the bluntness of the other bullies. Also those 'whiskers' under the eye suggest common to me, though my cran's has them. Do they have a coloured stripe on the edge of the first dorsal? What colour?

Bullies do change colour a bit. I think only the males are able to do that. The very dark colour is their 'breeding plumage' but also appears when they are being territorial or competing for food. Amazing how fast they can do it. They can lose all their colour and just go sandy brown if stressed, other times go quite a dramatic speckled colour. Not too sure why they do that one. Have only seen commons and uplands do that.

Also redfins are darker and a more intense red in relation to how dark the environment. Presumably yours lives and/or lived in a low-light stream with dark substrate. I haven't noticed my redfin male to change colour, he just stays looking impressive all the time.

What other fish do you have?

You are most welcome to come over and see my fish and talk natives if you find yourself in Palmy some time! (I currently have eight species, nearly nine (tomorrow I get brown mudfish for a breeding project!!). I am ever so slightly obsessed and am writing a book on keeping them.)

[warrenp]

Thanks for the invitation Stella! On the chance I'm up your way I will definitely take you up on it!

Well I don't yet know how many species I have, as I've yet to identify my recently acquired whitebait (20 of whom I caught about 6 weeks ago). I assume they are mostly inanga (possibly a few dwarf inanga??), but I'd love it if one or two were koaro (or maybe even a giant kokopu if I should be so lucky!). I will let go any inanga out of this lot.

So here's what I have:

4 little bullies which I imagine must all be common bullies (from two different small river tributaries in Upper Hutt and Wairarapa).

One sizable male redfin bully who you kindly identified! (from a large stream in Kaitoki, Upper Hutt). I've had him about 3 months in a darkish tank and his original stream/river was semi shaded.

One juvenile banded kokopu by the looks (as per photo) from a creek in Eastbourne.

Two fully grown inanga from an inner city stream in Lower Hutt (the one behind the library).

20 whitebait of unknown species from the Ruamahanga river at Lake Ferry, Wairarapa.

One little (15cm long) timid eel of unknown species from the Tauherenikau river in Wairarapa (of an unusually light brownish colour, almost as if it were an albino??)

So if I'm lucky with the whitebait I might have 6 different native fish species... A pair of mudfish to breed would be a dream come true! As would a smelt or two, a torrentfish, a short-jawed kokopu, bluegill bully or a lamprey (no harm in dreaming is there?)...

I have a few WCMM but I think they will have to go to new homes when/if I procure some more natives.

I would like to get into breeding at some stage but I think I'll need yet another tank for this as I need the two tanks I have just to accomodate all the above (along with a few crays, two mussels, snails, worms etc)...

Below is two photos of another one of my little (common?) bullies.

What are your eight species?

Oh, I just saw a picture of an upland bully with blue around the gill openings. Do you know if common bullies sometimes also have this blueish tint? If not, then I may have had a big upland bully once which I thought was another common bully and so put it back in the river.

[Bananalobster]

Wow I had no idea that natives had such pretty colors! Im so jealous and now you've made me want to set up another tank! :oops:

Just a quick question.. Do you need to run chillers on these tanks to keep them cool through the summer months?

[HaNs]

Wow I had no idea that natives had such pretty colors! Im so jealous and now you've made me want to set up another tank! :oops:

Just a quick question.. Do you need to run chillers on these tanks to keep them cool through the summer months?

Depends on where you are and how hot the room gets

Chillers are not cheap

I planing on using computer fans and frozen bottle's of water if my native tank gets warm

[Stella]

just quickly, I have very little time tonight but I will reply to you in full Warren later.

Yes keeping the water cool is very important over summer. Preferably no higher than 18 degrees but they can cope for short periods at 22 degrees.

I used to use a chiller but the pump died. Used to use ice till I went away and my koaro died... Now I use a standard 15cm desk fan, stand removed, opn top of my tank, cooling through evaporation. Works really well.

Bananalobster - native fish ROCK! I hope more people will get into them once I get my book out and the info is more easily accessible. Just need to spend less time here and more time writing it There is a reasonable amount of the basics on the forum now, do a few searches

[Bananalobster]

Has anyone had any success in breeding any of them?

[OscarBoy]

wow that would b cool if someone has

[Stella]

Hi Warren,

Small whitebait are usually a different species, kokopu and koaro are smaller than the inanga. (I soooo want some koaro. Beautiful fish. Used to have them and really need some again... 'for the book';) happy to pay you if you get too many!!). DOC has a useful chart of whitebait identification on their website. Inanga are the easiest - long and clear.greenish with tiny black spots. Koaro are short and milky, kokopu are short and amber (best seen when en masse). That is when they are first caught, they all change a bit after a little while in fresh water.

I have:

Four giant kokopu, last year's whitebait (bought from Charles Mitchell the whitebait farmer)

Two banded kokopu (ditto above)

Four inanga, at least one is three years old.

One gorgeous male redfin

One common bully, I think female

Two Cran's bullies

Three bluegills (had them a few months. very different to normal bullies in shape and behaviour)

Eight juvenile black mudfish (guessing less than a year old, got from a roadside ditch in Hamilton)

Five large adult brown mudfish, arrived last night for a breeding project I am doing with Massey uni.

So, um, that's 30 fish, nine species! I used to have koaro and uplands and desperately want to have koaro and torrentfish again, also need uplands to take some better photos.

Upland bully with blue gills? Sounds more like a bluegill bully to me! Uplands have the typical stocky body of the other bullies, a very blunt profile and a spotty face, usually brown or orange. Bluegills have a blue line on the edge of the gill cover, are very slender and have a face covered in tiny black spots. Look at the pics on my picasa site.

Your 'common' bullies don't really look like they have the tapered head... could be upland or Cran's..... Bullies are hard to identify though. You can get Cran's which look very upland etc.

It was so exciting getting the mudfish last night!! They are a lot more relaxed now, just hiding under the wood.

Yes various natives have been bred in captivity. Various bullies do it easily. Various mudfish have been bred, some have great success without meaning to while others tried and failed. Whitebait/galaxiids are mostly impossible in captivity to my knowledge. Torrentfish and bluegills not as far as I know.

I really need to get a female for my male redfin, he would be so up for it! Stroppy territorial dominant male!

Yay for native fish and finding more people with this wee obsession! :bounce:

[warrenp]

Yes! Great that there are a few of us! I began my obsession as an 10 year old who watched with awe (and unsuccessfully tried to catch) the scarily massive banded kokopu in the creek just down from where I lived (I'm reluctant to say where because there is still a sizable number of lovely big specimens living in the very same pond, and I'd hate to see someone like I was then catch them all!). Then as a young teenager I built a big tank from window glass under the house and I finally found a way to net those eerily big and ominous looking kokopu and so began my first native tank (to which I added crays, a koaro or two, an eel and so on).

Then I was overseas in Europe (or on the move between NZ and Europe) from age 19 till pretty much now (32), and so only now am I able to again pursue my childhood obsession!

ok, here is the picture of the upland bully with the blue tint round the gills. The ones I caught looked very similar, but I then assumed they were commons.

http://www.gw.govt.nz/story10797.cfm

Now I have to ask, how on earth did you find the mudfish in a roadside ditch?! Did you just have a feeling and pull over and there they were?, or was it hours of scrabling round ditches across the country? Did someone tip you off about them? I have been sloshing round muddy places in Upper Hutt and Wairarapa to as yet no avail...

re. the five who 'arrived' last night... (Billy Connolly accent) Did they come gift wrapped or arrive in taxis?

Where did you find the Bluegills?

So you had a torrentfish once? Did you catch it in a torrent? Did it always hang round the torrent of the filter outflow? I've heard in another thread that the species most closely related to them is the blue cod! Fascinating...

I would love to breed the rarest natives for other native enthusiasts round the country... I'm just aware that my darling isn't too keen on the house filling up with tanks... I'm not sure what will happen to be honest...

I will have more questions soon no doubt but for now that is all I think...

I await your book with anticipation!

[Stella]

Hi Warren,

Neat to know your story Mine is somewhat shorter..... always been fascinated with things that lived in water, always had icecream containers full or wrigglers and other bugs around the back yard (to my parent's glee no doubt). Had goldfish once I was allowed (9) till I left home (18). Then got goldfish a few years ago, then my ex called up from the pet shop very excited asking if we could get native fish. I was dubious at first but caved. The goldfish lasted a month more then were taken back to the pet shop to be replaced with more natives.

The start of the obsession..... and that was an embarrassingly short three years ago.....

That photo soooo looks like a standard upland to me. The colour on all the fish is a bit weird, maybe the blue is something to do with that. Definitely not a bluegill. The shape is all wrong. The spotty face and really blunt profile is typical upland, big male upland if one were to get picky

Unfortunately most non-bluegills and non-male-redfins can look very very similar.

The mudfish in the ditch was cheating a bit. Seems most fishy people up there know about it. The friends we were staying wit had had mudfish from there before. It was funny, we met some native fish people that night who had been surveying the stream unsuccessfully in recent years! We caught eight in one hour with an aquarium net and hanging off the side steep ditch trying not to get wet....!

Now I want to look in every ditch I see locally, they all look the same!

The five brown mudfish last night came from Nga Manu in Waikanae, but it is a reserve and the student catching them had permission. She caught 21 in one night, using 30 traps. Pretty impressive for mudfish. No taxi for these guys: private escort

Mike Joy, the fish guru from Massey caught me the bluegills. Apparently the Hutt River is crawling with them, but no torrentfish. The Otaki river is supposedly crawling with torrentfish (ignore my failed efforts last weekend) but no bluegills. He is trying to find out why.

Sorry, I was confusing, I have not had torrentfish before. Never even seen one. REALLY REALLY REALLY want one though!!! They look beautiful in the photos.

Ah see the useful thing of living alone is you CAN have five tanks set up and another two in the corner waiting for a suitable horizontal surface so you can fill them

Sorry, keep writing tomes..... too excited about fish right now....!