Pies Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 G.Alexander, thanks for the reply and your thoughts. I will try and answer what I can. I check SG with a refractometer, and have had my tank checked with a different refractometer. I am confident that my refractometer is giving a fairly accurate reading. 0.025. I am happy to slowly reduce my SG. This is easily done by increasing my top off by another 15 mins a day until it drops. I have always run it at 0.025 however. If it should be changed can you explain why? You also said you have a similar problem when running yours higher, did you mean with Zeovit and higer or just higer? I use a CA reactor, and am not exactly sure how to reduce my KH anymore than it is. The Zeovit instructions say to aim for about 8, so mine should be OK? I do run carbon. I have no idea what the brand is. Its the same stuff I have been running since day one though. I do change it every week or so. It is just pegged on to the side of my sump. I have no idea how to check the carbon I use, or what is available here is any better than what I already have. I have NO intention on using SUPER EXPENSIVE carbon, I simply can not afford it. I have 2 phosphate and 2 Nitrate tests. Salifert and Hagen. Both give similar readings. I know what you mean about my coral colour, and have no answer to it. I run a DelTec APF 850 skimmer, which should be more than adiquite, I feed carefully and have few fish. This is the reason I am trying the Zeovit product, as I do belive the reason for my SPS colour issues is these nutrients. No elements are being added to my tank, CA reactor, Zeovit & water changes. Thats it. I am running a bag of Salifert Phosphate Killer. I am happy to remove it, but don't see any connection. Why should I be un a hurry to remove it? I am happy to remove .5 litres on Zeovit media. Less is more? I don't want to over react. I am also trying to let Brendon (Zeovit supplier here in NZ) control the way that Zeovit is applied to my system. I will discuss the changes you have suggested with him before I do anything. I am concerned that the Zeovit is to blame for the problems I am having though. If there is a danger of mass coral loss or other problems I am prepared to cut my losses and stop. The Zeovit is expensive as it is, I don't want to compound it with additional costs of coral loss. Tommorow will be a very interesting day. Thanks for your input. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Alexander Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Pies, thanks, as may things there is no logical explanation for the salinity. I did a lot of testing with it so I always can tell you my experience. But beware of the readings. For example I own 4 different aerometer, each of them show other readings. If you test your salinity with the refractometer, you should only use the ppm chart. I also can not guaranty that my salinity is really 33 ppt, it is just the reading of my refrctometer. Convert it with one of the tables, the refractometer and the aerometer do not fix I mention salinity, because Mg in your tank is higher than in the synthetic salt mixes. This is normally, if you do not add it separate, a evidence to higher salinity. You should check. I also take a brand carbon for many years without any problem. One day anything has changed to the carbon causing the problems. I also do not have the technical equipment to do such tests. I switched to a as good known other brand. If you like to bring down you KH just switch off or reduce the CO2 for some days. If this causes a problem to your Ca you can use a little ! bit of Ca chloride to stabilize. 8 is the maximum, try to stabilize KH between 7 and 8, but this is not your problem. Running a PO4 absorber together with the method seems to cause problems. Why ? I do not know, these are practical results. You should use 1 liter Zeovit for 400 liter tank water. This is recommend for the net water quantity of your system. I estimate your net system water quantity around 650 liters. Less is more ? The right quantity is the best What about your skimmer ? It should export much more black form than before. I also would recommend you to use Zeostart constant, but not daily. 5 ml 2 – 3 times a week should be OK. G.Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Pies, I doubt the problem is the salifert phosphate remover or carbon. All you readings look fine. I have tested water from Vanuatu and Fiji and the salinity was about 1.025 so I would think that your salinity is not a problem. I would dose less of the zeofood, as this stuff is potent as I accidentally overdosed on the zeofood once and lost most of my leathers, xenia and gorgonians. I would stick to it, as I am interested to see if you do get any positive results since your nitrate and phosphate levels are very low already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Alexander Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 My test results with Fiji water (same equipment as I use for my tank now): Refractometer: 38 ppt Aerometer (Tropic Marin): 1,023 – 25 degrees Regarding to the salinity table form Meulengracht - Madsen (1977) 1,025 at 25 degrees is equivalent to 36,5 ppt. Take a look at the following document: http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk/JRD/OCCAM/POSTERS/EGS00a.pdf The salinity in Fiji is around 35 ppt. Ca, Mg, KH and salinity are very important with the Zeovit method. G.Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Dosed 3ml Zeostart, 7drops Zeobak & 7 drops Zeofood. Cleaned skimmer cup, not really any different to normal. No more coral recession, no more problems... today. Everything else looks as happy and healthy as ever. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Alexander Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Regarding the described iron leaching from the material I like to annotate that I have talked to nearly hundred people, running their tanks with this method. Not one of them has reported the growth of algae. Here is a easy example why I do not believe that the material brings iron to the tank. In my tank a have 4 Acropora and 1 Pocilopora they are bright yellow. If I add 20 drops iron concentrate to my tank, they change their color to green. I have never noticed that any of these corals become green if I change the material or mixed it up in the filter. Only if I add to much iron, I can notice the color change from yellow to green. I think there must be a further problem because of the algae. The analysis posted is 2 years old. In the meantime, I know Korallen-Zucht.de has switched to other zeolite. G.Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 it is possable that they have changed the zeolite, however when you look at the zeolite you can still see the iron, so it must still have iron in it. i quess it is still unknown if it effects the tank or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 There is a distinct green colour to the zeolite. This could be from a number of compounds. Most likely it is an iron(II) compound (as opposed to iron(III) which are usually a rusty colour). Alternatively it could be a copper compound, or most unlikely a chromium compound. Due to the fact that both copper and chromium are highly toxic to marine animals, even in extremely low concentrations, I think that the colour of the zeolite comes from an iron compound. I could be wrong altogether, but it is the most likely explanation for the colour. I have also never had any hair algae grow in my tank before. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Layton - Maybee its an after effect of the sugar causing your algae problem? Dosing sugar is reported to cause algae blooms. I know that hair algae can grow in a normal tank without the use of the Zeolite or iron additions. I have had an ourbreak of green algae (byrosiss) in my tank since late January. Nothing else has changed, so I assume its a problem with my bulbs shifting spectrum. I do hope however that the Zeovit kills it off. Layton - You have droped you KH frm 10 - 8, maybee this has triggered it. Any other changes in your paramaters, high mg can also cause algae. From everything I have read about Zeovit, German, American, Welsh, English & Australian none are reporting algae as a problem. RTN, too little algae, dieing or unhealthy soft corals are all reported, but not algae from what I have read. I too saw small iron (I assume) deposits on a few peices of Zeolite, but like iron in most rocks I assume its inert. I have no idea though. I know iron is required by plants in grow in freshwater, is this true for marine algae? Layton - How about putting up your additions and timeframe. Are you still adding Zeobak/Zeofood? How much Zeolite? Are you using Zeostart? How many drops a day? Water changes? Etc. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I had the same problem with hair algae when using zeovit, it started to take over my sump. I suspect that the iron in the zeolite would have caused the algae to grow, I don’t think it is a problem if you make the required weekly water changes as I had forgot to do this initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 can you rephrase reef, when you added ZEOVIT??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I have never had an outbreak of algae when using zeovit. Iron in the zeovit is not a problem if your tank is well run. I even dose iron every second day as a supplyment ( made by korallen-zucht ). I would have thought this would be a big no no if iron was leaching out of the zeovit. RTN is RTN, unfourtunately it can happen anytime ( usually when you are on holiday ). We still don't know what causes it and how to stop it. I have only had it once since using zeovit and that was about 2 months ago when my chiller failed and the temp went to 32 c, only lost a couple to rtn and quite a few bleached but are still hanging in there. I would recommend the people using zeovit to use it as per instructions on the bottle. Don't fiddle with the quantities until you are better at using the product. Regards, Brendan zeovitnz/aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 Its dark and I have been drinking, ohh and my haed hurts and I am wet... Dosed 7 drops Zeobak, 7 drops Zeofood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I know iron is required by plants in grow in freshwater, is this true for marine algae? Yes its required. Studies have been conducted where the ocean is fertilised with iron to promote algal growth. Carbon (from atmospheric CO2) is exported to the depths of the ocean (where it remains relatively long term) via the dead algae itself or from waste from organisms higher up the food chain, thus reducing atmospheric CO2 --> reduce global warming --> heal the world! Iron is the thought to be the major limiting factor for algal growth in the areas of oceans that receive little input of iron from dust blown off land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Ok, here is what I have added so far: 5mL ZeoStart 6 drops ZeoBak 5 drops ZeoFood daily. I stopped adding the ZeoBak after 2 weeks. I'm using 2 litres of Zeovit. As for the algae problems, I don't think they are related to the sugar. If I recall, people have had problems with red cyano (which I have never seen in my tank), rather than green hair algae when adding sugar. It could be related to the drop in alk. Who knows, anyway it's not a major problem at the moment, just a couple of small patches. I have noticed that my green porities, which was once a vibrant green, has lightened up considerably. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 and 10% weekly water changes. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Layton, I am some what concerned about how you are using your zeovit. Do you have any instructions on how to use it ? You should be adding 5 drops of zeofood not 5 mls. I would also cut back on your usage of zeostart to maybe 2 mls every second day. Any other questions, don't hesitate to contact me if your supplier is being unhelpful. Regards, Brendan zeovitnz/aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 sorry, BIG typo. The zeofood seems to pack a punch! I wouldn't like to see the tank after 3 weeks of adding 5mL a day! Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Layton - You are supposed to stop adding Zeofood after 14 days don't just stop the ZEOBAK stop both! Jane has been dosing the Zeovit for me while I have been away. As per the system. Yesterday - 7drops Zeofood, 7 drops Zeobak & 3ml Zeostart. Today (day 12) - 7drops Zeofood, 7 drops Zeobak. No real changes yet. Tank looks the same, algae is the same, coral colour is the same, skimmer is skimming the same. Will do a water change tommorow, is a few days over due but since I was away I couldn't do anything about it. Will test water later tonight and post. Will also remove my PHOSPHATE resun tonight. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Thats what happens when his supplier dosn't know what he's talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Ultimately there is only one supplier of Zeovit. The instructions I have are consistent with those on http://www.korallen-zucht.de/ , and numerous other websites. All say dose ZeoFood at 1-2 drops per day. The same for ZeoBak, but only for 10-14 days after adding new zeovit. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 O well, carry on ,as you know best. Good luck. Brendan zeovitnz/aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Day 13. Added 7 drops Zeobak & 7 drops Zeofood & 3ml Zeostart. Tested my water too: Temprature - approx 25C (moves a little). KH/ALK - 8.1 (salifert) PH - 8.3max 7.97min (pinpoint) CA - 420 (Salifert) Magnesium - 1350 (salifert) Phosphate - Undetectable (Salifert highrange & Hagen) doubble checked Nitrate - 5 approx (Salifert) Other changes to the tank? Replaced my old (11 month) 2x250w 10k BLVs with 2 new 10k BLVs. Did approx 10% water change today. Over all the tank is looking great with the exception that I still have some algae (byroprosiss or byopsiss or whatever). No more coral deaths but both corals did die. I think some of the Acros have lightened in colour a little, but its early days yet. Not much else to report. Tommorow is the last day of the system for now. From this point on I will not add any more Zeoproduct unless something drastic changes or Brendon suggests something needs to be done, otherwise its just sit back and watch. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Mark, After the 14 days stop adding the bac and food. I would recommend to keep adding the zeostart at 2 mls every second day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Day 14 Added 7drops Zeobak & 7drops Zeofood and 3ml Zeostart. So thats it I have been stiring the media most days. As per brendons suggestion I will add 2ml of Zeostart every 2nd day. Brendon - I assume I should continue with water changes of approx 5% every week? Will keep you all posted. NickS, JetSkiSteve & Layton - Where you guys at and whats the verdict so far? Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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