minchton Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 As a previous customer of Jansens, I always made it a point of going in and even if not buying,(because I always seem to arrive between shipments) ,having a chat with the staff who were very knowledgeable. Over recent times I have been in the shop to be ignored by kids who are more interested in their own conversation and if you can actually get their attention you find that what they know about marines could be printed on a pinhead. Now I dont even bother calling in. So it is not always price of the product, but other factors that also put a business down the drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Sure it is, Bit hard to cover every aspect on why shops fail in a few lines. If you have bad service The best thing to do it to provide feedback to the store manager or nothing will improve. You could say that many LFS/wholesalers also have a weakness that could be improved. If they don’t know they can’t fix it. Hopefully they will listen and do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneo Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Too true, Dogmatix always took criticism well and appreciated customers honesty at jansens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 remove unprofitable product lines you sumed it up reef! could not have said it better! thats the very reason why; after Rolf Jansen sold the shop to another company,(who is in the buisness of making money; never mind if loyal aquarist bought stuff before hand) they "removed unprofitable lines"! ie marines and other stuff. this had nothing to do with the fact that there was more competition around! it only happened because there was just not enough fast easy profit in it for the company (goldfish are much better). so that really shows that it makes no real difference bitching at each others in regards to prices etc. all that ever counts is the bottom line profit. so to say it loud and clear - jansen did not stop marine because of all the other importers / fraggers / hobbiests that managed to keep there live stock alive but only because the profit margins weren't high enough. well good by jansens you will be missed and welcome to all the other shops that will fill the place because they tend to work on smaller margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 so to say it loud and clear - Jansen did not stop marine because of all the other importers / fraggers / hobbiests that managed to keep there live stock alive but only because the profit margins weren't high enough. I dont think it is that simple. Profit margins could not have been that high due to the above. So it would have been a easy call to make. Give shops a good reason to close marine then they will. Livestock is a real risk so you should expect a good returns. Great to have loyal customers but you have to make money. I dont see many hobbyist bailing out pet shops when they go bust because the shop kept the prices down to help them. Just look at all the pet shops that have closed due to trying to do everything on the cheap to get business. They are gone and jansens is still around. And to be fair too any business. Why would any company want to supply a unprofitable product line. Can you image the out goings they have? Staff is the biggest expense for any business. If you invest millions in a company you should expect a good return. if it was your money you would do the same. especially if you had share holders to answer too. would we invest in a business that was making min profits. What if Hollywood’s close the marine section? Something to think about? Not saying this is the case, but could happen. At the end of the day there is no easy solution, but the thread gives hobbyist something to think about and give them a insite on how business operate. price of a product is what it is as it has to be so that you will still be in business the next day and the next etc. Too be fair not many Hobbyist are business minded or run successful business so that is why their are heated arguments. Might be information overload. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot Hobbyist would think differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Over recent times I have been in the shop to be ignored by kids who are more interested in their own conversation and if you can actually get their attention you find that what they know about marines could be printed on a pinhead Now that makes me laugh. I made a formal complaint about exactly the same thing. Just for reference - I was suggested to do so by dogmatix (it wasnt him) after I told him about it. At least one staff member is on the ball. Great to have loyal customers but you have to make money But you just told me you werent in it to make profit reef? If thats the case the shops must be making huge margins. Too be fair not many Hobbyist are business minded or run successful business so that is why their are heated arguments. Might be information overload. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot Hobbyist would think differently Clearly only marine importers run businesses and know what they're talking about. Business owners like myself and several other hobbyists I know of certainly must just be slaves to the system and no more. What idiots we are :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 chimera wrote Clearly only marine importers run businesses and know what they're talking about. Business owners like myself and several other hobbyists I know of certainly must just be slaves to the system and no more. What idiots we are I guess your comments on threads does show you lack of business acumen. It does take time to learn so hopfully you can learn something from these threads. Talking to LFS owners will also help you understand the computations and permutations LFS face. Its pretty simple, if LFS thrive then maybe more might spend more money on better systems and money might be avilable to add more fish to the MAF list. More stores might open a marine section because it actually might be worth doing it. Not the current trend of reduced outlets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 guess your comments on threads does show you lack of business acumen. "Acumen", insightfulness, shrewdness shown by keen insight. Sounds like someone familiar It does take time to learn so hopfully you can learn something from these threads. Dont import marine livestock because you have to deal with unethical competition? Talking to LFS owners will also help you understand the computations and permutations LFS face Permutation with repetition or without? :roll: Starting to sound like a broken record so I'm picking with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneo Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Too be fair not many Hobbyist are business minded or run successful business so that is why their are heated arguments. Might be information overload. I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot Hobbyist would think differently. Running a business well is not that hard A business is only as good as its worst employee Never once did a sales person approach me at jansens and try get a sale........ BUT the smaller owner operated petshops work hard to make a sale happen eg Petplanets old shop, I would go in there just to say gidday and would walk out stunned, broke and with bags of stock/gear in hand :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I don't want this thread to turn into a slagging match - my hope is that by learning a little more about the supply chain, we can all play our part a little better, i.e. Suppliers supplying more consistently, retailers ordering a reasonable quantity and mix, and customers telling retailers what they want and not grisseling about awesome corals costing more than crappy ones, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 I don't want this thread to turn into a slagging match - my hope is that by learning a little more about the supply chain, we can all play our part a little better, i.e. Suppliers supplying more consistently, retailers ordering a reasonable quantity and mix, and customers telling retailers what they want and not grisseling about awesome corals costing more than crappy ones, etc. I will make it easy for you. Importers order their stock from overseas. They don't see it first. NZ is a small market so the best pieces go to the suppliers best customers and biggest customers - so not NZ. Shops order stock from importers. They don't see it first. Best pieces go to the best customers/mates etc. Shops sell corals - customers get to see the corals first hand - best stuff goes first. Those in the know - owners, employees, mates, top customers, first in the door normally get first pick. Importers and shops do not have the room to sit on a massive amount of stock. It would be nice to have a better selection to pick from but it will not happen. Orders have to be a reasonable size. Importers and shops have to sell down their stock before reordering or the freight cost becomes a real killer. For the size of Christchurch you are probably better served for marine livestock than the rest of NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 sounds like another case of who you know, not what you know :roll: i rarely (if ever) see acro's in the shops (any shop) only softies and lps (although often a good variety of fish when new shipments come in) most people i know of buy either frags or full size acros when someone breaks down their tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 sounds like another case of who you know, not what you know :roll: i rarely (if ever) see acro's in the shops (any shop) only softies and lps (although often a good variety of fish when new shipments come in) most people i know of buy either frags or full size acros when someone breaks down their tank. Yeah and that is why shops don't like selling SPS. Far to easy to frag. More often than not a small specimen will do better than a large one in a new tank anyway so there is no real advantage in buying a large one. Also to get the really awesome colour they would need better systems and sit on the stock longer while it coloured up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 nteresting to see what hobbyist think is an awesome coral. Many people have different tastes. Heh, true. I don't find most SPS very nice at all, I much prefer LPS and softies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thats cause you kill all your sps Ira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Heh, true. I don't find most SPS very nice at all, I much prefer LPS and softies. Likewise.... that and my partner tells me i'm not allowed any "" looking corals :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Thats cause you kill all your sps Ira No I don't! I have a hydno that...Uhh...Just looked closer...Ok, yeah, I kill all my SPS. I need to get some kalk I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Likewise.... that and my partner tells me i'm not allowed any "penis" looking corals :-? Are you allowed a clam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneo Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 :lol: classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Summed up pretty well by Pet planet to a degree, however interesting to see what hobbyist think is an awesome coral. Many people have different tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 While the marine hobby is small on the scheme of things, I think there are still enough hobbyists in it to like either LPS, softies, SPS or various combinations of these Personally I like the movement of LPS/soft corals as it gives some action to an otherwise motionless SPS tank,... but then there is nothing better looking than big beautifully coloured SPS. I dont believe variety is hard and most of the common SPS would be favoured by the average "coloured stick lover" - acro's, milli's, monti's, stylo's, poc's, seria's and the various colours of each. It is perhaps the very advanced hobbyist who already has all these and is looking for that rare or hard to come by specimen that will demand something different. I understand that it is difficult for an LFS to keep SPS "coloured up" in their shops long term without a good deal of time and maintenance invested in their tanks (its hard enough doing it at home :-? ) but most shipments of acros that go into shops seem to disappear not too long after so surely they must sell well. I dont mind brown acros if they're healthy as I know they will colour up long term - its when I see bleached, half broken and poorly maintained acros in a shop still with ridiculous price tags that makes me wonder why I should fork out the money and take the risk buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 but most shipments of acros that go into shops seem to disappear not too long after so surely they must sell well. The last time most shops got acropra would have been on the 1980s other than a few shops who have the odd acro. The last time Hollywood got them they ended up in the show tank. Due to the specialised nature of these coral most store will pre order them in. Off corals supplied to LFS it would be less than 5% of total coral stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMAZONIAN Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hi All. I've just learn't theres a new CRITTER KINGDOM STORE on Ferry Road. I think not, cause I did all the ChCh shops last week and didnt see a C K on Ferry Road. Somebody made a BooBoo. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 There's a Critter Kingdom on BLENHEIM road, and a Pet World on FERRY road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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