Caper Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Well Frenchy, sounds like we need you back here in NZ then Ah...I was going to suggest coming to Cape Breton Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 UPDATE: Well, nothing we did brought the ammonia/nitrite level down, so we emptied thank tank, washed everything - and yes, th filter wool too, and started again. That was Thursday night. Since then, levels have ALL been consistently at zero. One more WCMM and one sucker have diedsince then, so we are thinking that perhaps the effects of ammonia or nitrite poisoning are irreversable? Does anybody know? Our smallest goldfish is ot too well, lost a bit of mobility nad tends to spend someperiod sitting on the bottom, and looks just fine other times. We have her in the hospital tank so the others don't bother her. We're just waiting to see how things go now, and testing the water daily. It should help that there are only 3 fantails inthere now. We would REALLY like to know if the toxic effects they've suffered are reversable or not? Can anyone tell us? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyc Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Have you tried a water conditioner like 'Aqua Plus"? A good quality conditioner is worht the cost. Also check the ph. The safest ph is 7 (neutral). Also add furan to eliminate secondary infection. The problem sounds more like a parasite problem. Talk to your local shop about Formulin or white spot cure? Formulin also eliminates other bacteria in the water, but be careful and precise with dosage rates. It is also preferable to oxegynate the water whilst treating as formulin binds with the oxygen. The filter will eliminate the formulin over a 10day period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 We've been using a water conditoner called Prime. It removes chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, and detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. It's good stuff. What makes you say it sounds like parasites? What kind of parasites? Hw would we diagnose that? I don't want to go treating her for something she doesn't have while she's so vulnerable. The pH is perfect. So are all the other things as we test both the big main tank and flossie's hospital tank daily. I can't SEE any white spots on them, so how could that be it? If there are any 'hidden' parasites or "secondary infections" what would we be looking out for please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 If the damage was severe then it is not reversible. Different water conditioners are not going to do a lot, especially if it turns out to be internal parasites. If you just cleaned everything out, including filters, then your results should be 0 as the tank will cycle again. Give it 7 - 10 days then re-test. Many additives stuff up test readings so the water conditioner might be doing this. I don't know, I know Ammolock does. Hidden parasites are internal. Look for skinny fish, reddened gills, loss of appetite, clamped fins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Thank you Caryl. The fish are ncie and fat, and always very hungry and eat well. No clamped fines - all up and perky - even Flossie who is the sick one. No red gills. Flossie is bottom sitting some of the time, and seems to have impaired mobility - she swims more jerkily than she used to. But she feeds well, and has started swimming up for food on the surface again, and seems to be taking baby steps towards getting better. We'll have to wait and see. The only odd thing I noticed was 2 of the goldfish doing really long stringy, WHITE poos that were in a ZIG ZIG, rather than just a normal poo. I looked it up and found that that can be a sign of the fish reabsorbing eggs. Does that sound right? They seem fine and happy and healthy in every other way. They do totally normal poos after feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Long stringy poos can be a sign of internal parasites... BUT usually you would see the other symptoms caryl mentioned, lack of interest in food, lethargy, hiding in the corner. Did any of your other fish exhibit symptoms like this prior to death? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Well, the WCMM who died would seperate themselves from the other fish and hide, and then just become more and more lethargic, until they eventually died. Usually, once we noticed one hiding, it was 24 hours before they died. But we were told that it was nitrite poisoning that was killing them as it was really high, and that was what the red gills were from. They did flash against things, but we thought that was just because their gills were irritated and burned. I should mention, then we actually did treat with white spot treatment for 3 days in the first week, because I noticed some flahing, and a bit of 'yawning'. So that should have got rif of any parasites, right? We lost 3 borneo suckers as well, and they just sort of lost their mobility, changed to a funny colour, and died. They had smoe redness on their bellies (the sucky part). ONE of them had some kind of strange sore right under one of his gills, and I took photos of it. I don't know how to upload it to here though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Read the thread here about posting pics. Photobucket is good, as least I find it easy :-? Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I should mention, then we actually did treat with white spot treatment for 3 days in the first week, because I noticed some flahing, and a bit of 'yawning'. So that should have got rif of any parasites, right? External parasites that cause flashing are usually gill flukes, white spot treatment only treats the ich parasite not gill flukes with you would need to treat with something like praziquantel (which unfortunately isn't available from pet stores, however can sometimes be sourced from farm stores in the form of droncit). I had to deal with a case of gill flukes, where the fish flashed, became lethargic, eventually went of their food and had heavy breathing etc and i would lose a fish at a time over a couple of weeks. Usually stringy faeces is a sign of internal parasites not external and again requires a different med.. You mention above that the nitrite levels were high i would have thought that if it was nitrite poisoning you would experience several deaths all at once rather than one at a time. Don't get discouraged! i know what its like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Thanks for that jolliolli. I have a gut feeling that they were suffering from nitrite poisoning, as it really peaked at one point and we lost half our fish within a few days - not slowly dying off on at a time, like you said was typical with parasites. Now that water conditons are good, we only have one fish with 'left-over' illness resulting from the nitrite poisoning - or so we think! I guess in a couple of weeks of the water is still testing all good, and there are still long white poos, we could always treat for internal parasites, although they're not losing weight, and are still VERY interested in food. I must admit, I occasionally see them go to the surface for a breath - don't think they're supposed to do that. We'll give the tank a little more time to cycle before treating or using anything else in the water that might affect the cycling process. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Don't forget that weakened fish are more susceptible to parasitic infection - the Nitrite levels might have triggered the problems, but with careful treatment they can be resolved. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Kelsta, I think its the fact that your fish were flashing early on that's triggering the concerns about flukes. White spot is usually visible. Yes, the flashing could have been from them being uncomfortable due to the bad water conditions. Keep an eye on them. Health fish shouldn't really flash.. but flukes don't kill fish as quickly as other stuff might. Usually they keep eating till very late in the infestation (according to some website somewhere!) In the meantime, in case it is flukes, keep the glass and the gravel clean and keep up your water changes to kep the levels of the parasite down in case it is present. Then just keep watcing them closely, once your cycle has been over for some time you'd expect the fish to settle. If they don't then you should consider the possibility of flukes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 OK thank you I will keep an eye on them then. The goldfish have NEVER flashed - only the WCMM. The two that survived (!) have flashed a bit, but haven't since the water conditions improved, but I'll keep a close eye on them all. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 That sounds about right.. goldfish are very hardy compared to other types of fish and in ponds I believe they tolerate some level of parasites without much trouble at all, they'd be less sensitive to the usual cycling process too I'm pretty sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Yeah that's what I've been hearing from all sources - good old goldfish! I will definitely try and get hold of some Prazi once the cycling is over though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 OK, now I have another concern, I mentioned the fishes wierd white poos before, well, they only do those occasionally, in between normal poos. But, I am now wondering if I should be more concerned. I've been told that it can mean internal parasites, or an internal bacterial infection, or re-absorbing eggs (but only if it's zig-zagged). Well, sometimes it's zig zagged and sometimes it's not. Also, when they do normal flake-food poop, it's often got air bubbles in it, which makes it float at the top of the tank when they've finished pooping. Is this normal? Should they be doing thin, stringy white poos, and should their 'normal' poo have air bubbles?? They look SLIGHTLY thinner because we suddenly cut back feeding drastically to assist cycling, but they are still ravenously hungry all the time and feeding well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Try feeding bloodworms - it might simply be too much processed food giving them gas (literally) - don't forget that fish also control their boyancy by releasing gases from their swim bladder out through their vent (bum), so don't stress if you see the occassional bubble. Their gut bacteria might also have been upset by the treatments you have used. A few bloodworms will help clear out their gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 We have brine shrimp in the freezer - would that do the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 OK cool, thanks. What do you think about the white poop though? Should I be concerned or am I being paranoid? They all do it - even the one in her own little hospital tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 I wouldn't stress too much at this point. If they start exibiting other symptoms as well (like rapid weight loss) then you have a problem, but on its own it is more likely diet, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 OK thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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