jolliolli Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Hi guys Just wondering if anyone can confirm if this is whitespot on one of my discus. Tank temp is currently 28 degrees i have just upped it. I have whitespot cure but as i am in the middle of using an anti-flagellate called octozin i have been reluctant to combine it as i'm unsure how the meds would react. Yesterday i noticed he was very dark in colour with a few white spots which i thought may of been abrasions from scrapping with the others, but today hes alot darker and a lot more white marks and his scales appear dull, hes also been periodically floating on his side. 4 other discus are all fine, and rest of the community fish are fine. Also in the first picture you can see a whitish lump at the base of his body. He is still eating. Can anyone offer any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 im thinking now its probably not white spot and what i'm seeing is patches of his slime coat coming off. Can anyone confirm if this is what it looks like when discus lose their slime coat? I did a water change day before yesterday and will do another tomorrow. There has been no change, still patchy, dark and tilting on his sides, if anyone has any thoughts please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Not white spot. I would treat it with furan2 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 well tonight after i came home i did another 30% water change on the main tank, his behaviour is the same still turning on his side, dark colour but is eating. I made a 30% water change tonight and while examining him i noticed the lump on his ventral side was possibly larger. When i got a torch out i could see that in fact it was red and raw and pieces of flesh were actually missing. Anyone have any ideas as to what would of caused this and how to treat. Would furan-2 still be the right course of action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Update - quarantined him in a 40l tank last night and added the furan (thanks for the advice discusguru and dracoz). This morning i tentatively thought he seemed better, he has been upright whenever i have checked, and his slime coat appeared to have less white marks and his colour seemed to improve as well. He also seemed a little more active, swimming to the front of the tank when i check on him. He ate some food so fingers crossed the furan will sort him out. will keep you all posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Furan 2 or maybe Formulin (sp) has he been rubbing on anything, what are the other's doing in the tank. What are you feeding? Beef Heart. Feeding Discus heart and other high protein foods require a large water change weekly, 2 or 3 smaller ones over the same time doesn't clean out enough of the waste and you can get a bacteria build up in the tank and they start to attack the surface of the fish which just guessing could be the problem. Only a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 i haven't seen him rubbing or flicking on anything, everyone else in the tank including the 4 other discus have been great. I tend to feed tetra colourbits and usually bloodworms twice a week, shrimp pellets and algae tabs for the cories and BNs. No food gets left over tetrabits don't usually get a chance to hit the bottom they're usually gone by them. i do a water change every sunday around 30 - 40% however last week i had the flu so it was 1 1/2 week period of no water change. Nitrates were still only around 10ppm though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I once had a female get similar looking little white infections after three weeks of heavy feeding by a particularly large brood - they healed without treatment once I removed the brood to a raising tank. On the plus side your fish still looks to have some flesh on its bones, so it may just have succumbed to some sort of local skin / slimecoat infection rather than a systemic disease - I note it has what looks like bite damage on the rear of its dorsal fin and two whitish areas on its tail that look like a bacterial infection. In any event, Furan2 is probably still the best option, but be careful how you handle it - its pretty toxic stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 yes i found i had a fin nipper! i caught my honey gourami taking a nibble of his tail fin the other day. I've caught it and restricted it to a breeding trap, i think i'll have to sell her as much as i like her, i can't keep fin nippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 That's probably it then - infected bites compounded by a bit of stress. Do water changes and / or treat with Furan2. (I'd be inclined to not treat unless it gets worse over the next day or two - Furan is horrible stuff) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 the plot thickens! i was looking in my tank tonight and i noticed that a small piece of driftwood had broken off leaving a sharp jagged spike where the discus like to swim past, i now think this is a likely cause for the injury near the base of his ventral fin. I will be filing it down. Hes looking much better tonigh, colour has come back, all the small white spots have disappeared and the wound is looking smaller and like it is healing. makes me happy :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 How's your fish doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me love fishy Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 You could always try some melafix if you are worried about the wound, it helps heal wounds etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 You could always try some melafix if you are worried about the wound, it helps heal wounds etc. It also kills pencil fish, so be careful. I've had mixed results with that stuff, and no longer use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 seems to have almost fully recovered, hes still in QT at the moment. He has all his colour back and his wound is healing nicely and no longer lies on his side. Still a touch of rattiness on his tail fin but he may end up going back in the main tank tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Good result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 hmm i put him in back in the main tank last night to see how he'd go, he has been shy and hiding, although sometimes instigates fights with the other large male in the tank. im also having problems with one of the discus i bought around 6 weeks ago, and i'm wondering if the problems i've had with my current discus are related to him. Although the wound on the current discus appears to be healing it seems to be taking a lot longer than i would of thought, also in the last few days he seems to have developed a tendency to spit his colorbits whereas previously he used to just gulp them down. The reason i think something may be related to the discus i bought recently is that ever since i bought him he has shown little interest in food, he will eat bloodworms but thats it and he also chews and spits his food, he seems to have developed finrot and i suspect this is due to a lack of nutrition through not eating and also due to some sickness. He also has a tendency to just lie on his side occasionally.. I wondered if the spitting food could be a symptom of hex? When he eats it tends to be bloodworms so its hard to tell if his faeces are whitish due ot the bloodworms or due to hex. I had previously treated the tank with Octozin which on the bottle is claimed to treat hole in the head but i have since read that hole in the head and hexamita may be different things. I have him in quarantine at the mo to see how he goes. Any thoughts? Anyone had a discus with hex, what were the symptoms and where did you get metro from? i may be overreacting but id like to hear ppls thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Hmmm... hard to diagnose anything definite, but generally finrot only occurs in tanks that have poor water parameters. It may be that even if you are doing regular water changes that your filter is too small and unable to process enough waste fast enough - what kind of filter are you using? It may also be that they are bored with the food and a lot of it ends up rotting in the bottom of the tank. Try something like JBL Grana Cichlid for a change and see how they feed. It may also be that the new Discus just isn't a good one. There are a lot of low quality locally (NZ) bred Discus on the market at the moment that are simply genetically weak - and it is often the runtier individuals that get sold off first. Post up a picture if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 I think filtration should be ok its a 300L tank its running an Aqua One CF1200 (1200lph) external filter and also a Juwel Internal filter (1000l/ph). All food in the tank seems to be eaten almost before it hits the bottom. He looks interested in food but seems as though he finds it difficult to eat it, almost coughs it out. The other discus that i bought is a full grown adult about 12cm or more, im now really starting to wonder about it being something else like hex. I posted about the discus with the wound on simplydiscus.com and someone msged me to say that his discus also had a similar sore on their discus. Initially he thought it was a heater burn but it was bleeding and erupted in to a sore. He noticed my post as the sore was very similar and also the fish developed signs of finrot, unfortunately it died within a matter of hours. He thinks his fish has hex, it keeps tilting its head up etc. I'm going to transfer him back to quarantine again tonight once i get home and perform another water change on the main tank. I would feel better if i could get some metro and eliminate the risk of it being hex. I also had my female blue ram develop tumour like lumps on her head, i wonder if this is related, from the pics i';ve seen of hex the advanced cases seems to develop lumps? Do fish with hex last a long time or do the symptoms and death occur quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 well both discus are back in separate quarantine tanks until i can sort the problem. The red melon i bought around 6 weeks ago has suddenly had his fins start to rot. 2 days ago fins were absolutely healthy, yesterday fins looked a little ragged on the edges, came home tonight and fins were so ragged the rays of the fins were sticking out. Im really surprised at how quickly his fins degraded. i also tested my water quality and nitrates were only 10ppm so water quality seems to be all fine (ammonia, nitrite - 0). I performed a 50% water change anyway. Once in quarantine i had a close look at the blue discus wound again and its not healing in fact it seems to have almost worn through to the other side. Also strange was that his faeces was a yellow colour which i haven't seen before. I've taken some updated pics below. Also the blue ram that i had with lumps on her head died today. BTW the white slimey stuff on the fins and small white particules on the blue discus is the octozin med in the tank yellow poo red melon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 That's pretty alarming - the only time I've seem anything like that is on fish that have been in transport for a long time / and or in bad (cold) water - none of which seem to apply to your tank. It is definitely an environmental problem, though, so check all parametersCheck the temperature is about 28 degrees, and the other thing worth checking would be copper content (take a sample to John if you don't want to buy your own kit), but that is unlikely except in older houses. Other than that, I think you are going to have to treat with Furan2 - follow the instructions on the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 yes i thought so too, water is 27.5 degrees, ph around 6.8, nitrite, ammonia - 0, nitrate was 10ppm yesterday before water change. Currenlty have him on a course of furan and am sourcing some metro which i've read can be used together. The information i;ve read seems to indicate it could be either parasitic or bacterial and the spitting food seems to be an indication of parasites. House is only 8 years old so plastic pipes i think. Other 3 discus in the tank are all still fine i am watching them intently! will keep everyone updated as hopefully this info might be of use to someone with a similar problem in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 one other suggestion someone emailed me with was the dreaded discus plague. Symptoms include darkening, onset of finrot and shedding skin. Has anyone here dealt with discus plague? i don't even know if its confirmed in nz. I should mention the blue turq and red melon are both on furan-2 at the mo, and the blue turq has at least shown improvement in behaviour/colour even though the wound is no better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 I went and read Untergasser's enormous Discus Health book last night - he puts fin rot down to environmental stress associated with either mineral deficiencies, or toxins - its not dissimilar to people's hair falling out when they are stressed. If you are using RO water he recommends tipping a bottle or two of natural (presumably not fizzy) mineral water in to the tank to restore trace elements. Given that you are probably not using RO water that seems unnecessary. That leaves a toxin - do you use cleaning products on or near the tank? Things like 'Spray and Wipe', flyspray, and tobacco smoke can all seriously harm fish, even in small quantities. The only other factor is stress - make sure the tank isn't in the sun (and thereby fluctuating in temperature), isn't in a high traffic area, and the tank mates are compatable. If its any consellation, it doesn't look like plague (although I've only seen pictures of it). Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 had the same problem with fin rot a few months ago, Used furan2 and cleared up in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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