gills Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi all, I need to understand about water hardness better than I do now before I start my pressurized co2 system. I know I have to watch my Ph closely. I realise you measure GH, KH and Ph to calculate the co2 concentration but is it essential to monitor the hardness so closely? How do I find out what the hardness should be for my fish? I know what the Ph should be, does that always correspond with the right hardness? Does anyone know of some good sites or articles on the net that explain it in simple laymans terms without getting too technical? All constructive input and sugestions appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 The Aquarium Wolrd magazine (which will be out in the next couple of weeks) has an article on water hardness. It talks about hardness, general hardness, carbonate hardness, temporary hardness, how to determine dH, and how to soften hard rain water. Generally speaking, most town water supplies are fine for both hardness and pH (there are a few exceptions) so it isn't something you need to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 A good CO2 level is generally recommended to be around 15 - 25ppm. You can either measure the CO2 directly or measure pH and kH and obtain CO2 from a table. As long as when you set it up you know how many bubbles per minute you need to get the right CO2 level for your kH you are fine. You don't need to keep monitoring it which is the great difference with pressurised CO2. The krib has good info on the relationship between CO2, pH, KH and GH. Chucks planted aquarium calculates CO2 levels in your tank Also, Estimative index in depth, EI (not so in depth!)and PMDD dosing Steve Hampton's plant site Plant Geek forum on CO2 and water chemistry Pressurised CO2 parts Links page for pressurised CO2 and aquascaping forums and info. Heaps of Amano tank pic links just to get you inspiration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 "Tanks" for the info guys :lol: Generally speaking, most town water supplies are fine for both hardness and pH (there are a few exceptions) so it isn't something you need to worry about. But Caryl, doesn't CO2 change the hardness when added? As long as when you set it up you know how many bubbles per minute you need to get the right CO2 level for your kH you are fine. So how do I find this out? And thankyou for all the links Shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 To find out your bubbles per minute you use a bubble counter. This can be like a ladder thing which is also a diffuser, or a drip-type one. And just...count how many bubbles there are per minute. Or if you're lazy, 10 seconds and times it by 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 No idea gills as I have never used CO2 :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Sorry HummingBird, what I meant was- how do I find out how many bubbles per minute I need to have? I have a bubble counter and I can count to 100 at least :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Ah right my bad. Yeah I don't really know, I only use a Nutrafin Co2 kit (rated for tanks up to 75L) on a 120L tank, so I know it's not anywhere close to being too much. The plants do appreciate it though. I haven't noticed any pH problems since I've been using it either, and I have been monitoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 No worries mate. I'm using a DIY yeast setup, its ok but i'm sick of doing the mixes and in this cold weather they don't last long. I might just have to try 1 bubble every 3-4 seconds monitor it and adjust it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 CO2 reacts with the water to form carbonic acid (hence coca cola has a pH OF 4.6 if I remember correctly) The carbonate and bicarbonate are used as a buffer and will react with the acidity (H+ ions) and increase the pH again. What you need to remember is that this reaction generally leaves calcium ions and will increase the hardness, which may or may not be a problem depending on what fish you are keeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 When I set mine up, I measured pH and kH before turning the CO2 on. The pH will change when you add CO2. The kH will remain constant. Turned it on to about 2 bubbles per second . After several hours I measured pH again. Went to the handy online CO2 chart and looked up how much CO2 I had from the measured pH and kH. If the level of CO2 is too low, you increase the bubbles per second. If the level of CO2 is too high, you lower the bubbles per second. Until you get to the right level (~15 - 25ppm). Alternatively you can just buy a CO2 testing kit or drop checker and slowly increase the CO2 bubbles per second until you hit the level you want. If your water has a low kH and low starting pH, you may need to add baking soda or shell chips at the beginning to increase the kH and hence the starting pH. Otherwise your pH will be too low at the optimal CO2 level. I add 1/2 tsp baking soda with every water change to keep my kH around 4. Hope this helps. I know there are people way more experienced with CO2 on this forum who should know the answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Thanks for all the great help guys. I'm learning heaps, I hope I can retain it all :lol: I've started the system up and monitoring closely. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Here are before and after pics to show you how good pressurised CO2 is going to be for your plants. At CO2 setup... 1 month later..... So go buy some scissors now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Good looking setup shell, what sort of plant is that in the foreground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 It's just hair grass. It means I don't need to vacuum the gravel. So lazy! :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Ditto on the tank shell, very nice. I see you had some Vallisneria in the back left corner in the first photo but not in the second. Did in not survive or is the Rotala hiding it? Mine seems to struggle(more than other plants) if not provided with enough nutrients. What type of Diffuser/Reactor do you use? I can't see one inside the tank in the pics, Is it inline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 The grass at the back is Cyprus grass. It has been struggling in comparison to the stem plants in front of it. It grows, but much slower. I've been reluctant to remove it though as my oto's love it for some reason! I think Cyprus grass looks better in bigger tanks when it curves over with the current. The diffuser is a 20mm glass/ceramic diffusor (ADA knock off) from trademe. It's hiding behind the ambulia. Pressurised CO2 is great. But I have to dose ferts heaps for a small tank to keep it in balance. How's the CO2 going gills? What plants have you got? Any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2007 Co2's going good shell, no fluctuations in Ph yet, it's still on 7,KH=50 and GH=60 so according to co2 calc co2=8ppm so time to up the bubbles per sec. As for plants,Twisted Vallisneria,Cabomba,Java Moss,Java Fern 'windelov',Lilaeopsis zelandia,Crypt cordata,Rotala rotundofolia, and a couple of others I don't know the names of. :-? No pics yet sorry, gotta get a new digi cam, last one got dropped. Might try with the phone. But I must say that mine pails in comparison to yours and many others i've seen on this site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted July 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 I downloaded Calculator from Chucks Planted Aquarium site, the test kit I use gives the GH and KH in mg/L but the calc wants the measured KH in degrees and ppm. How do I work this? :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 29, 2007 Report Share Posted July 29, 2007 Only fish people talk in degrees. Scientists talk in ppm. The water in Christchurch is about 45ppm hardness expressed as calcium carbonate. One degree is about 18 and a bit ppm so Christchurch is about 2.5 degrees---relatively soft by international standards. When Europeans talk about hard water they mean it will hold up a teaspoon by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shell Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 Here's a converter. If you measured your kH as 50 I think that it is probably already in ppm. It is equal to 2.8 degrees (dKH). If the 50 was in mg/L, it would equal 140 degrees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted July 30, 2007 Report Share Posted July 30, 2007 mg/l is ppm. It is normally expressed as mg/l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gills Posted August 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2007 Thanks guys, you've been a great help. I'll have to get a proper diffuser to get 100% absorption, this ladder isn't good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.