The hunt for a Diagnosis Now with Photos

[jn]

Does anyone ever use fluketabs?

When I bought furan I noticed they were also selling fluke-tabs in bulk as well?

[Freakyfish]

Just to clear some things up

Furan-2 uses nitrofurazone, furazolidone and methylene blue trihydrate

These guys are antibacterial and can be used together with an anti-parasitic and anti-fungal medicines

Flubendazole is a different treatment for Skin and Gill Flukes

Brad

[jolliolli]

thanks for the info Brad that is what I thought. To answer your question above herefishiefishie the reason i treated with furan-2 was that the presence of blood streaking in the fins appears to indicate a secondary bacterial infection, therefore i was hoping to cover both bases by treating with prazi and furan-2. All other fish are fine except for the scratching. Tonight i picked up my old microscope so will take a look at the gills and scales tomorrow although I understand since its been a day or so since the death i may not see much.

[herefishiefishie]

Fair enough, the red streaks made me think, what to do too. Is it caused by bacteria or flukes.

Hope the other fish pull through. Flukes can be a pain to rid, especially when well established.

Frenchy

[Freakyfish]

Yeah the problem looking at fish on slides is the fact they liquify very quickly after death

Might be worth a look though

I was also stumped on what to use on this problem though i couldnt answer b4 today

I wouldnt have recommended Melafix even though its really good not going to be strong enough to treat this

If you find its happening again maybe Furan2 but watch your dose rates as your fish didnt seem to like it this time

also probably Prazi as well

Brad

[herefishiefishie]

From doing a bit of looking up of red blood vessels. I think the fish pictured may well have had hemorhagic septicemia. {Common in Gold Fish}

It is caused by a bacteria that attacks a fish's blood vessels. The bacteria slowly spreads, causing hemorrhaging along the way.

What is it?

Thankfully, most fish owners will never come across this disease. But when this disease occurs it has devastating consequences. It progresses slowly, often with little symptoms. The fish will continually more lethargic until it finally dies.

It is caused by a bacteria that attacks a fish's blood vessels. The bacteria slowly spread, causing hemorrhaging along the way, thus the name. Eventually the disease reaches the heart and other vital organs and the fish will die.

It is often brought about by poor water quality, as are many diseases. Parasitic infections may trigger the disease, but are not a direct cause. The fish may exhibit dropsy-like symptoms as body fluids leak into the abdomen, causing the fish to appear pine-cone like.

It is also often due to high ammonia levels, and for that reason is more common in goldfish. (I.e., goldfish produce a lot of waste and in turn water is more susceptible to high ammonia.) Water changes should be carried out regularly to help prevent this nasty disease.

It may not affect all fish in an aquarium, and often only affects fish with a wound or point of entry.

As well as a bacterial form of this disease, a viral form also exist. It is less common however.

Symptoms:

Streaks of blood in fins are often one of the first obvious signs. The may have red areas on their body and eyes as well. The fish will become lethargic, which increases in severity as time goes by.

If the condition is brought about by ammonia, ammonia poisoning symptoms may also appear. These include gasping at the surface and rapid breathing.

Cure:

Quick treatment is essential! Firstly check water parameters (pH should be 6.5 - 7.2 and ammonia should be 0). Fix these and progress to treatment. A broad spectrum anti-biotic should cure the problem, providing there has not been too much internal damage done. Medicated food may also help. Sadly, it may be too late and the fish may die regardless.

A small amount of aquarium salt added to the aquarium will help with stress and will help restore fluid levels to a normal level within the fishes body.

Remember, water quality is always extremely important- so always check that first as it is often the cause of disease in aquarium fish. When treating sick fish, try to put the least amount of stress on them as possible, as stress will hinder the heeling process. Another thing is to remember is that generally, a healthy fish is a happy fish.

The above information was from

http://www.angelfire.com/blues/fish_pro ... CEMIA.html

Frenchy

[Pegasus]

That's one major quote.. and good info Frenchy.. ... but can you give the author some credit for the above .. if they are not your words.. ?

You say:

From doing a bit of looking up of red blood vessels

Seems someone took quite some time to put that together... but now you claim it as yours by posting without acknowledgement to the original author.

See guideline... Ref: Copyright... Quoting:

Quoting from another source.

When quoting from another source you must give a proper reference. Title/Author/ISBN of a book, Author/Journalname/Year/Volume/Page of a Journal or Magazine article, Link (and if possible Authors name) to a webpage or whatever properly identifies the source of your information.

Thanks.

Mod.

Bill.

[jolliolli]

Hi guys,

I really appreciate all the info everyone has given in trying to solve this problem. I also read a little on hemorhagic septicemia the other day and started to wonder if it was this. I did wonder if the the ram had his scales slightly sticking out and I also think one of my gouramis exhibits this (but who knows, when you stare and stare at a fish forever you start to see things that aren't there ). I will keep everyone posted on what happens with the other fish in the tank.

[Freakyfish]

The above information was from http://www.angelfire.com/blues/fish_problems/HEMORHAGICSEPTICEMIA.html

I know what you mean Bill

I am the same as Frenchy just used to forums over here

Where we are generally not allowed to link to external sites

I just found that by cutting the information and googling it

Brad

[alanmin4304]

It was common in goldfish a few years back and I had a friend who was a microbiologist culture the bacteria. Can't find the notes or remember the bacteria but the cure I used was amoxyl. Most antibiotics are used at 1/100000 or 10ppm but amoxyl can be used at a few times more than that and is relatively cheap as antibiotics go, but still prescription only meds.

[jolliolli]

I've had a read up on and most sites on the net seem to suggest furan-2 is effective against it. The more i read on it the more i think it could of been this as the ram exhibited all the classic symptoms, redness at base of pectoral fins, red streaking in fins, fast breathing, lethargy, loss of appetite, very slight pinecone appearance and right at the end loss of equilibrium (which i initially thought was a reaction to the meds but may just have been the progression of the illness)

[jolliolli]

the cure I used was amoxyl. Most antibiotics are used at 1/100000 or 10ppm but amoxyl can be used at a few times more than that and is relatively cheap as antibiotics go, but still prescription only meds.

So a vet could prescribe it?

[herefishiefishie]

Oppsss sorry, my bad Bill. :oops:

Frenchy

Fixed.

Mod

Bill.

[alanmin4304]

If it is bacterial furan would be cheaper and easier. I tried to get antibiotics from a vet last week and got a definate no. If it is viral try prayer. Tha bacteria is common in the soil but blooms in a heated tank--- also blooms in a spa pool if not managed properly and caused a few rotton armpits down here a few years back.

[jolliolli]

also blooms in a spa pool if not managed properly and caused a few rotton armpits down here a few years back.

Nice . Well i'm hoping for bacterial, im more convinced of it being septicemia i have a gourami and mollie quarantined, the gourami was turning on its side in the tank slightly a couple of hours ago and traces of red have appeared in its fins and the mollie just looked suspect. Quarantined them both with a rasbora (which i also didn't like the look of). Mollie i had to euthanise, it started losing equilibrium and swimming crazily round the tank (so at least that confirms it wasn't the meds that caused the ram to lose equilibrium) so i put it out of its misery. Anyone else in the tank that looks suspect will be quarantined also.

[jolliolli]

Question, i want to treat my nets to prevent any transmission whats the best way, bleach?

[herefishiefishie]

A number of options. What is easiest will do.

Bleach will work too, just have to dechlorinate, re soak before re using.

When I worked at a lfs, we used an iodine solution. Made a solution in bucket. The theory is as much iodine as you can't see through the water.

I guess if you use so much salt that its more than sea water & hot water, that should kill most fresh water organisms especially at high heat. Hang them out in the sun for a few days to dry out.

Frenchy

[jolliolli]

Update : Honey Gourami has also died, rasbora looks ok although i won't risk putting him in the tank. I thought about the fish losses today and realised this may have been going on for a while. I lost the following

3 months ago

One of the first fish i bought back in February was a blue dwarf gourami, he was fine at the shop but from after the first day in the tank he hung out near the top of the tank turning on his side, from memory he only lasted around a week and then died.

About 2 months ago

2x neon tetra - not sure of age, one died overnight, the other died a few days later - neither had signs of problems so i put it down to old age (as i don't know how old they were when i got them).

3 weeks ago

1 Honey gourami died, no signs of illness, no blood, no equilibrium problems, just found dead one morning. THe same week two mollies died, also no signs of illness, all were eating well. One of the mollies had its tail and head eaten off...

Last Friday,

Balloon Ram died, followed by honey gourami yesterday, both had red blood streaks, equilibrium problems, not eating and lethargy.

Im wondering if a) the initial dwarf gourami i bought may have had the septicemia and its slowly invaded the tank, or b) one of the mollies had it and whoever ate the infected fish had it transferred to them.

I'm going to keep a running log of any fish losses and see if i can get to the bottom of it.

All fish in main tank still fine, not displaying any symptoms, may find out in a week or two as i've read hemorrhagic septicemia kills in around a week.

[markoshark]

Im wondering if a) the initial dwarf gourami i bought may have had the septicemia and its slowly invaded the tank

Can anyone confirm that dwarf gourami are known disease carriers?

And if they are, is septicemia one of the diseases that they carry?

[jolliolli]

yeah i'd be interested to know. Interestingly enough most of the cases i have read on the net involving septicemia have involved gourami's...

[alanmin4304]

It is a common soil bacteria and imported fish have usually been kept in ponds. The spa pool problem was caused in a pub by people walking accross a lawn to get to the spa pool and not chlorinating properly--- bacteria soup. That is why it often crops up in goldfish.

[herefishiefishie]

Gouramis especially dwarfs are prone to a number of bacterial problems. The lovely sores I have seen on some

Frenchy

[jolliolli]

It is a common soil bacteria .

Is it possible for the bacteria to be present in daltons aquatic mix?

No further deaths or signs of illness in my community tank at the mo

[alanmin4304]

There are probably a number of bacteria that can cause the problem and like verious types of algae would be all over the place and realy only cause problems when things get out of balance.

[jim r]

Has anyone considered that saprolegnia could be the problem? Septicemia is very uncommon and usually attacks (wounded) goldfish.If the problem is septicemia it is usually caused by poor water quality and kills within 1 week. 6.5-7.2ph 0 ammonia and anti biotics are a known cure. Saprolegnia is known to attack kissing gouramies and malachite green is a known cure. This information was googled from several web sites and not from personal experience.