Opinon on setting up small tank.

[Bluetom]

I , as i bet everyone who doesn't already have a saltwater tank does, have been dreaming about possibly setting up a marine tank.

My current freshwater is still a work in progress so unlikely to get into it any time soon. and with an already 500L tank wouldn't really want to go too big.

I'm just wondering what peoples thoughts were on starting on a small scale. I can't really afford skimmer and lights for a large tank, no matter how I look at it. Was wondering if starting with a 50L tank would be ok? I see most nano tanks out there only use HOB filters and no skimmer?

This was what my thoughts were, (mostly because I have most of the equipment lying around unused)

Tank; 2x1x1ft approx 55 litres (14gal)

Filter; aquaclear 500 HOB (suitable)

Lights; 3-4 T8s or a couple of T5s

Rock and sand.

Easy soft corals, (I appricate the effort in keeping hard ones but not so keen on looks)

100W heater

One or two small fish, (chromis or clowns?)

Would try to use NSW, from Takapuna most probably

So really only outlay with setting up would be Rock, Sand, Corals and fish. Does anyone have a suggestion as to monthly/weekly running costs ie food, chems etc. for a tank this size

Thiswas the tank that got me thinking.

[davidb]

dude skimmers are not expensive and imo are one of the most important things for a tank. if its only 50L a small hob skimmer would do the trick. have you considered this? http://www.deepblueaquarium.co.nz/ReefKit.htm that comes with a small hob skimmer filter thingy, lighting etc perfect for a 50L 2 foot tank

[davidb]

i dunno food cost etc but my costs for a 200l tank are abot $5-10 a week chems and food. i have 9 fish atm i think, and lots of stony corals

[wasp]

Years ago I kept a 600 x 300 x 400, somewhere around 60 litres. lighting was 4 18 watt floros which was fine.

For a time it had an HOB filter but this eventuallty caused 2 much nitrate & I had to ditch it. Tried to go skimmerless but it was a losing battle eventually I had to put one on.

The tank housed an anemone with 2 percula clowns in it, a cleaner shrimp, damsel & couple of native rock pool blennies.

Assorted easy type corals mainly mushrooms and zooanthids, and other bits and bobs.

Had the tank for a couple of years, had algae problems for a time, which gradually came right once the skimmer went on, plus dosing vodka.

[Bluetom]

At the moment all I would really have to get is live stock( +rocks etc.) so another $200 for a skimmer is a bit. Just thinking could I get something going with all the stuff I have lying around.

davidb: The setup looks quite good, $400 isn't what I really wanted to spend at the moment though. Could well upgrade later though using this.

wasp: How long did you go before you decided to change to skimmer. Just wondering about starting with HOB filter, then upgrading to skimmer later.

The aquaclear 500 is ment to have approx 1800L/h flowrate. Would I reduce the nitrates if I used an even smaller tank. Have one half the size, approx 30L.

[Andrew_W]

Having no interest ATM of owning a SW tank, so I didn't really take in what i was reading but, i believe if you are using live rock, you need to leave the tank fish less for awhile (because of ich? or something), so you could always get a skimmer and then save for nemo and dory while your rock stuff settles.

maybe someone else could confirm or deny :lol:

[wasp]

Having no interest ATM of owning a SW tank, so I didn't really take in what i was reading but, i believe if you are using live rock, you need to leave the tank fish less for awhile (because of ich? or something), so you could always get a skimmer and then save for nemo and dory while your rock stuff settles.

maybe someone else could confirm or deny :lol:

Kinda. The coral rock takes a while to "cure", ie, establish a population of bacteria that eat all the waste products. Before it is cured, the water is probably too toxic to put any livestock in the tank.

wasp: How long did you go before you decided to change to skimmer. Just wondering about starting with HOB filter, then upgrading to skimmer later.

The aquaclear 500 is ment to have approx 1800L/h flowrate. Would I reduce the nitrates if I used an even smaller tank. Have one half the size, approx 30L.

That particular tank went maybe a year with no skimmer. In fact I had never owned a skimmer at that point, but after reading about them I decided to DIY one. It was pretty crude and inefficient, but none the less the difference in the tank was dramatic. From that time on I was a skimmer convert!

As to the aquaclear/nitrate question, what happens is that the media in the aquaclear is exposed to a constant flow of aerated water, ideal conditions for the bacteria in the media to convert the ammonia to nitrite, and the nitrite to nitrate. BUT, that's where it ends because the bacteria that eat the nitrate, converting it to nitrogen gas, cannot do it in a highly oxygenated environement, they need a very low oxygen environement such as is found deep within the pores of the coral rock (liverock). So to get rid of the nitrate, you ditch the freshwater type filtration like cannisters and HOB filters, and simply have coral rock in the tank and allow the bacteria in that to process the waste, they will deal with the nitrate also.

But if it is a small tank and you really wanted to run a HOB filter, you could always do big water changes & get rid of the nitrate like that.

But it is one of the things that is hardest for people moving to saltwater, from freshwater, to get to grips with. In a saltwater tank, cannister and hang on filters usually are bad for the tank. Don't have one, instead use the money for a skimmer.

Should add, cannister or hang on filters can be used for the purpose of running carbon, or similar, but as a rule should not be used for biological filtration.

[Bluetom]

Wondering about running HOB as a flow creator with carbon or the like. Would aim to have a good quanity (per litre) of live rock.

Has anyone seen or used one of these before?

What sort of price is rock and argonite sand? I remember reading jetskisteve used to sell live rock, how much do people tend to ask for $ wise?

Thank you for your response wasp.

[Bluetom]

Is it possible to over skim a tank, for instance would a skimmer recommend for a 125gal tank be ok in a 40gal tank? If it was in a sump?

Has anyone had a Weipro sa 2013 before? Doesn't come with a pump, any suggestions on pump size?

[markoshark]

i've got an air powered protein skimmer, that you could try and use

Heck, its no good to me currently

[lduncan]

Is it possible to over skim a tank

No. They just stop working long before you over-skim your tank.

for instance would a skimmer recommend for a 125gal tank be ok in a 40gal tank? If it was in a sump?

Skimmer ratings are mostly hit and miss. Depends on bioload, how clean you like to keep the tank. A skimmer rated for a 125 gal might be barely adequate for a 40gal when stocked with certain animals. But might be more than adequate for the same tank if stocked with other animals.

Rule of thumb, get the biggest skimmer as practicable.

Layton

[Bluetom]

I'm think perhaps a 50L tank with a 75L sump. Housing soft corals, not a lot but a few and max 6 fish, clowns or chromis something small.

Any thoughts as to whether this skimer is ok for that? Are air power significatly less powerful? Worth bothering with?

[reef]

To be honest, i would do lots of reading before getting into marines as it is expensive and the livestock is not as hardy as freshwater fish.

I see so many hobbyists start up cheap and things just turn out to cost so much more. Also smaller tanks like 100L is not easy to look after as the small volume of water does not allow much margin for error. Also in summer things heat up very easy.

Too get a decent set up without livestock you are looking at min $2k for a 3-4ft tank.

My opinion is going cheap is not a option as the livestock will suffer and they are getting scarcer every year, i beleive the marines will change dramatically over the next 5 years and it just cant go on with the way the reefs are being damaged by over collection.

Marines need very good water quality so getting good equipment is very important, I am afraid the cheap weipro skimmers just don’t cut it.

Well that is my opinion however I suspect you will get many others.

Have you looked at the red seas max tanks, they come with everything except livestock/rock . Will set you back $2k but at least you will have a complete set up.

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/april- ... 20049.html

[petplanet]

You might put two little fish in a fifty litre tank but I wouldn't even do that.

Saving money on equipment will cost you money in livestock.

Start with a decent size tank. At least a 3ft.

[RTBS]

Don't be put off if you really want to give it a go but do listen to all advice freely given and make up your own mind.

I am new to Marines as well. We converted one of our freshwater tanks to marine just after xmas. I did a DIY on the lights to save $$. reused everything in the way of pumps ete BUT bypassed the bio-filter system. We use NSW and just started using RO water for topups. Added a modded 6025 Nanostream as well

The one thing we didn't skimp on was the skimmer. Best advise given to me here was just that.

Yes it is expensive, yes we spend more than we perhaps should, but I don't regret it. Most important thing would be patience, nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

RTBS

[Bluetom]

I have seen the red sea, look very nice, just don't have the cash at the moment but more importantly I'm not too keen on a larger tank, as I have trouble finding enough time to keep my planted tank clean and thought prehaps smaller would be easier to over filter etc so keep lower maintence.

For a small tank, 3ft 150L, for instance what sort of skimmer would you suggest? There seem to be alot out there and everyone has different opinons about whether each is good or not, I understand Deltec tend to be regard as the "bee's knees" but looking at prices probably not really a go in the next.. decade

I know it would be best to buy as large as I could afford but just want to know where the line is as to cheap and not cheap if that makes sense?

Well it's one of those cheap or not at all stituations.

I would never start a tank if i thought I was going to be unable to give the inhabitants the necesary conditions. And based on your responses I think i'll leave it.

[reef]

understand Deltec tend to be regard as the "bee's knees" but looking at prices probably not really a go in the next

They are good skimmers and are not as expensive as some people make out. For a small tank you can get the deltec mce300 which ill cost you around $500.

Might seem much but if it saves you 3-4 fish it will pay for itself already.

I do have a bit of a bias as i have been importing Deltec for over 8 years and if there where better skimmers i would use them.

Smaller tanks are not low maintenance as there is not much margin for error so you have to keep an eye on them all the time,

Maintence on a tank will depend on water quality. If you keep the tank with very low nutrients then things will stay cleaner, however it is also advisable to get a water filter like ro or di unit however that will set you back another $200 or so.

Tap water contains a lot of minerals. So by not using a filter you will be adding them to your tank thus the algae will use it to grow

,

[RTBS]

Don't give up just yet, have you considered something like this

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/totm/index.php

You would still need a skimmer but could also do large water changes.

Could have one very small fish, shrimps and corals. Would need to have better lighting but is possible.

[reef]

Nice small tank. I wonder how many fish jump out of that tank. manderine/goby would dice with death in that tank.

[Bluetom]

That is a very nice tank, a little along the lines of what I'd love to set up.

These were the nano tanks that got me inspired here

This is one of the articials I've done a little reading of (almost finished)

[nz_mitch]

www.nano-reef.com is probably worth a browse

[Zev]

Maintence on a tank will depend on water quality. If you keep the tank with very low nutrients then things will stay cleaner, however it is also advisable to get a water filter like ro or di unit however that will set you back another $200 or so.

Tap water contains a lot of minerals. So by not using a filter you will be adding them to your tank thus the algae will use it to grow.

You could use bottled RODI water, I use Pure Dew, comes in 10 litre bottles from The Warehouse, for around six dollars. I use one bottle every one and a half to two weeks for a 105l tank.

[markoshark]

Using NSW a possibility, or will it import a lot of rubbish?

[reef]

Using NSW a possibility, or will it import a lot of rubbish

Yes, NSW contains lots of bacteria and nutrients. But depends where you collect. not great if it is in a built up area with sewer going into the sea.

[chimera]

Using NSW a possibility, or will it import a lot of rubbish?

NSW is fine, perhaps moreso for well established tanks. Just ensure you collect an hour before high tide and dont collect after heavy rain. Many people use NSW and have stunning tanks. Its also a tradeoff between ease of collection and cost