Binkles Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'll start from the start - and then hopefully someone can help sort me out. My name is Laurence Merraine, my wife and I got a 60x30x30 tank just before Christmas, with two underwater filters, a crappy light, and stones and a heater. We set up the tank, brought two new lights (length of tank) and then set it up with a piece of wood, two rocks (all bought from Animates) and lots of plants - we subsequently removed the two red plants as the leaves kept dying. We filled her up with water - cycle and aqua plus as recommended by Animates, and left her to stew for a week. We then took a water sample in and it passed, so we bought 6 neon tetras and two catfish - albino (one male and one female). Things were humming along well, regular water changes of up to 1/3 and everything has been going well. Temperature is steady - around 26 most of the time - sometimes down to 25, and every now and again 27. We introduced 6 glass catfish and they swam around and all was merry in the tank, there were parties in the tank most nights, and huge hangovers in the morning. Monday we went out to Redwood Aquatics (having only dealt with Animates up to this point) and purchased 4 small neon tetras, and 2 siamese fighting fish - male and female. Next morning we found a dead neon - was one of the smaller ones. Yesterday 2 died, and today 1 - all from the 4 that we had bought. Yesterday, after being told that the siamese like calmer water we bought a eheim 2233 external filter, and that fired water around faster than the underwater one. We put in a spray bar this morning - but it still looks rather fast. We have now found that the male fighting fish has a couple of white spots, and we're worried that we're going to lose him. We're also worried that maybe we've made the wrong decision about the filter, or the choice of shop - as the dying fish have all come from there. Any hints, we realise there is so much to read, but sometimes there are so many different suggestions we nod our head and say "ummm what?" A good example is when to put in your first fish, we went to probably 6 different people and they all said different things Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 8, 2004 Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 Hi Laurence and welcome. I think your main problem has been you have added too many fish too quickly. The tank would not have begun to cycle until you added the first 6 fish. Those products alone would not have done a lot to get it going. I like to work by the rule - add as few products as possible. Most are unnecessary unless you need to dechlorinate the water in which case you may leave the water sitting overnight and the chlorine dispels anyway then add it to the tank. Takes more time doing it that way though. Undergravels don't usually cause big water flows so I am wondering if you have powerheads on the top rather than the water just bubbling straight up and out the top of the uplifts. They should have been fine. Siamese Fighters, especially the males with the long flowing fins, don't do so well in a community tank and I prefer to see them on their own in a species setup. Having said that I am aware many people keep them in community tanks. You have added a total of 20 fish over a very short period and the filters could not keep producing more bacteria quickly enough to cope with the increased waste load. The last fish added are probably dying because they have possibly come from better conditions into your tank with climbing ammonia levels and they have been too stressed by the poor water quality to survive. White spots on the fighter also point to poor water conditions and stress on the fish. This may be treated with a treatment bought at your lfs. The disease is called White Spot (for obvious reasons). Have you done another water test since adding fish? What are you testing for? pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings would all be helpful. Whatever you do, don't add any more fish!! Treat the ones you have, keep doing the water changes and see if things improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binkles Posted January 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2004 We get our water checked once a week normally, though a couple of times twice a week. I don't have the exact readings for them - but as a guide. The amonia levels are light yellow, nitrate, and the other n one are pale purple. The water had been tested the morning of the last additions. The female siamese has just died. I'm pretty sure that we're going to lose the male as well. I'll try and post a pic of our tank later on today, as well as a little movie (if I find the camera and software) so you can see how swift the water is now moving. The plants are swaying quite rapidly, and I really think we shouldn't have bought the eheim now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hi Laurence, A warm welcome to the NZFR forums. Caryl has just about covered everything above... too many fish all at once causing too big an impact on the system all at once. Might be an idea to segragate that fighter for a while (or permanently) but you will still have to treat it for ich (white spot). All the best, and hope you get things sorted out quickly. Read this, it might help a little.. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=1817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binkles Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Yeah we had read that, that's why I tried to write as good a detail as we could. The Male one has just died as well, so we have removed him and we are back to our original 6 neons, glass and two cat fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binkles Posted January 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Though I'm still worried about the power of the eheim. Is it possible to buy a too powerful one? I think we're about 100L and the eheim can do up to 200l - we're preparing for when we have a stand for our 3ft tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Binkles said... > I think we're about 100L ... 60 x 30 x 30 = 54000 = 54L filled to the top with just water, no gravel, rock, wood, plants etc. You probably have closer to 45L usuable (and *very* clean) water, potentionally down as low as 30L or so... > I'm still worried about the power of the eheim. I'd be inclined to take it off and just use the UGFs. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hi Binkles, you stated your tests showed light yellow and light pink for ammonia and nitrite respectively. Both of these are not a good sign. The ammonia test should have a very faint tingle of yellow at the most and the nitrite should be clear. Both indicate borderline toxic levels. Small water changes of 10% every couple of days will help until the filters really kick in. A tank will cycle without fish as there is enough organic mater introduced to a tank when it is set up to get things going. However, the loading is very small in this circumstance so fish have to be added a few at a time a couple of weeks apart. This gives the filter time to adjust. Every time you add more fish you'll end up with a micro-cycle occurring. It will be at a fraction of the level of the initial cycle so will be safe for the fish. The plants will help as long as they are growing well. If they are sitting in stasis or dying they will not help at all. If they are dying off fairly quickly they will add to the problem. If you're going to add medications to help with whitespot, it is often best to remove all the plants during the treatment period (especially in small tanks). Plants absorb most of the medication and in most cases it damages them. If you can put them in a bucket and leave them in the sun during the day and somewhere reasonably warm at night (only in summer) they should be fine for a week or two. Keep the water level high and check the temperature doesn't get over 28'C and below about 18'C. Indirect sunlight is best. Hope this helps a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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