Afrikan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 My way of thinking is.. if they are not imported with a variant as such, then they are just straight "Julidochromis transcriptus", no known variant.. would never even begin to label them a certain variant when it isn't known... The same can be said for marlieri if it has not been imported with a variant.. Definately dangerous to label a fish something when there is no certainty :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Wow, so there is on that link :lol: Easy to see confusion aye. And this site too. http://wetpetz.com/julmarlieri.htm They are found at localities including Magara, Halembe, Kala, Katili, Samazi, Kambwimba, Isanga, Cape Tembwe and Katoto. even mentions a new variant An orange variety from Bulu Point has been recently discovered. Picture of J. marlieri Orange So which varient listed above is in Burundi? Well just to let tropheus know, Magara is in Burundi. Some call them Burundi, some call them Magara, or in this case both Julidochromis marlieri, Magara, Burundi & magara/burundi Burundi is the "old" name for them, alot of sources still use that. Sorry thought you be up with the times Tropheus. The cichlid forum is a great site, just some information is more up to date than others, simple really. Thanks for biting to tropheus The rest of the places are scattered. eg; Kala is in Tanzania, Isanga-Zaire, Katoto-Zambia... So Tropheus to keep up with the times you should call them Magara, why do I hear you ask? Well there is also a variant called Rutunga, that is in Burundi too. Just calling them Burundi, could cause confusion. Now, why did I say this? Especially if you post rubbish like J. marlieri "Burundi" I would be a bastard to all those concerned, that if I knew better & I let comments like that slide. Correct? I have been told the Marlieri were imported into NZ without a variant, eg; Burundi. So why do you call them that? :-? I am the idiot, but if I can see through you, what does that make you then? What you are doing by adding varient names to fish, imported without, is wrong. Plain & simple. Then again I here you sell your electric blues as ahlis too....thats not right either aye. :lol: Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropheus Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well I guess you right then. I should spend hours on hours, like you, searching thru millions of internet sites getting all the updates of various species and variants before I consider naming any of my fish. OH hang on, I cant. I have a life, kids, sports, business and fifty odd tanks. Oh its all in good jest. Thats how we learn ah. Guess if I want to call my fish a certain variant from information that I obtained from a reputable source ie Cichlid-forum, I guess I will. As for selling my electric blues as Ahlis. Well I guess I should let you know that since the last forum re Ahlis, I have informed the LFS, when they rang to obtain more, that they werent Ahlis but S.Fryeri. Be my guest to contact them to confirm. But OH ME they still wanted more. And I know that a number of people on this site purchased them no matter. I guess thats the reason I took the time to raise the subject in the first place if you can remember. Oh Freshy, you better contact a few of the web sites and get them to update their sites before other people fall prey to misinformation. Well better go. Need to bag lots of Julidochromis marlieri (Burundi) for sale or is that Magara? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 NO!!!!! They are just Julidochromis marlieri , nothing else. As Caserole says, unless they come in with the location name, that is all they are, Julidochromis marlieri. And no you can't go by someone saying "Oh! I know what that is. It's so and so." It is as it came in, Julidochromis marlieri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 CRIKEY As African keepers we should be setting an example.. No way should these fish.... marlieri or transcriptus here in NZ be labelled anything other than just that.. they didn't come in as a certain variant so Tropheus it is wrong of you to label your marlieri as any such variant... Things like that can ruin it for other African keepers who try to do the right thing also... hardly fair when we all keep the same fish, it is only going to cause HUGE confusion to new parties who take on Africans :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Thats how we learn ah. Guess if I want to call my fish a certain variant from information that I obtained from a reputable source ie Cichlid-forum, I guess I will. Reputable source is great, but only if you use it properly. My better half is a RN uni student 3rd year. It is what you do with the references. You haven't learnt anything. From the fronnie posts, yellow posts, electric blue posts..... :roll: The point is you can't go by a picture on the net. You can only go by what you bought them as, that is it. Okay wholesales make mistakes, ie; ahlis, but that is easily corrected. Calling something that it isn't is wrong, plain & simple, irresponsible, oh blah blah blah. If someone gets in a particular variant & imagine if it was the same as what you have called yours to. You are risking cross breeding by having incorrectly labelled fish. That is just one problem. You see people usually do what you have done to also upsell there stock, ie; get a better price. Hope your not like that. I don't have to check anything about the ahlis, if you are now doing the right thing now, well done. The thing is I know you weren't. OH hang on, I cant. I have a life, kids, sports, business and fifty odd tanks. If I didn't have to keep you in check in this case, then I would have a life too. :lol: I think people should take responsibilty of what they post. People who might not know better may take your word as gospel. If you had of read the first few posts properly, we wouldn't of had to go down this path in the first place too. Oh its not mis information too, they are using the old name, which is still valid. In other parts of the world they are still imported as such. Rutunga are imported as such too. The point of the my posts was that you are calling your fish by the wrong name. That is it. :roll: Overseas the "Burundi" are still imported as such & sometimes with the variant tag, you see people who buy them know exactly what they have got. I prefer the variant tag on its own, but what can you do. Oh I had a good weekend thanks, few quiets Friday night, cricket Sat, out with the boys Sat night, played in Poker tourney today, at the misses currently, she is studying while I am having fun, had dinner & still managed to find time to discuss fishy fish names. People that live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. :lol: Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharronpaul Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Just had to make sure that I was in the cichlid forum..... for a moment it looked like I was in marines. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 yes they did come in as Masked Julidochromis' BUT they have to be some sort of vaiant don't they. So what you are saying is tha even if there were 2 different shipments of 'Masked Julidochromis' come in, and they are visually different they should still be put into the same tank/bred just because the suppliers did not provide a catching location/variant and called them Masked Julidochromis. For example 3 years ago a shipment of compressiceps-'red fin' came in which looked like redfins. Then in the last year there were 2 shipments that were labeled the same but visually different. According to what is being said here we/i should put them into the same tank and not worry about it just because the supplers identified them as being the 'Red Fin' Variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 With commercial breeding happening all round the world now, you can start getting markings, and colours variation, is there such a thing scientifically as a "Red-fin"?? Or is that just a catch phrase name?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 If consignments of fish, that have come in under the same common name look different, then I would hope that people buying wouldn't mix them? If there is that much of a visual difference.. I think it comes down to common sense, but all in all, I to believe that no variant should be given if it clearly hasn't arrived into the country with one.. gee it is worrying enough at times with fish coming in under common names... As Stu stated: If fish what ever type is imported and variant is important like Africans and killis unless it is blasingly obvious ( and even then it is dangerous )you can't give it a location name other then the year it was imported and any subsequent imports should be given a separate year to identtafiy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 BUT they have to be some sort of vaiant don't they There is no variant name. & no they might not be a variant at all. With cichlids in the older times, some were simple collected passed on & sold. Alot of cichlids were just haplochromine, I doubt they thought there would be hundreds of species, all with their own variants, when there is no other lake the same anywhere around the world with such diversity of fish. Then later on down the track they go hey we found the same fish somewhere else & gave it a variant. Then the old school place gets given a variant as well. The old school already in circulation just maintains the old name no variant. Problem is by then its like, well we were exporting a particular fish from 1,2,3... different spots, didn't really know better in some cases. We thought it to be the same fish. After scientific examination, oops there are little differences. Number of scales, rows, teeth....all very hard to tell with naked eye. Julies in marlieri have been circulating for nearly 50 years. Here, USA, Europe there are plenty of examples of old school cichlids, that will never have variant names. A.Compressiceps, A. Calvus Black, Electric Yellows, Electric Blues{Fryeri}, Aulonocaras that just have fancy names like sunshine peacocks, brichardis, lelupis, frontosa, Julidochromis species.... could go on for ever. Julie marlieri were first collected from the northern parts. That is a pretty broad area, especially seeing as now the northern parts are broken up into at least 5 variants, top of head. As for Red fin compressiceps, there is such a name. So that is what they should be called. There is a red fin variant from Kigoma too.{Fire fin common name} The theory is they could be the one fish, but if they came in just as red fins then that is all you can call them. Can't call them Kigoma. When it comes to Altos, I have had, 10 different types. Some are just called common names, black calvus, gold heads...then I had a gold head variant"mutondwe", a red variant variant to "kigoma" there are differences between them & the common names too. The white Calvus I have currently, look like Chakitia, but I can't call them that. They were smuggled in just as White Calvus. No biggy really. Just what we got. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Oh speaking of red comps. Someone had a photo up in cichlid forum of their comp. I said it looked like a red fin, but what did it get imported in as. Looks like it really is one then....cool 8) Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Gee Frenchy, here in NZ we would never admit, well not openly, that we had smuggled fish or plants, etc., in our possession. We could expect a knock on the door any time after that from MAF. You could then loose all your collection, even if 99% of them were legally obtained. I heard of a guy that copped this up Coromandel way. Lost some super-hard to get Killies too. I tried to get them saved at the National Aquarium and/or Kelly Tarltons but to no avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 5, 2007 Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 You can here to. If you can't say i bought them off this shop, as long as they got off this breeder, who got it from that breeder. To many steps down the line. If I had a freshly illegal import then yep, i am in trouble. I get fined if I am not willing to name someone else. Most cichlids & catfish in Australia were smuggled in at one stage. Illegal imports if you have are fine, if they are generally well circulated. {The whites at the moment are probably a bad example :oops: Probably, I am the one of a handful in Aussie, successfully breeding them at the moment} so shhhh... :lol: If a fish is classed as a noxious species, then that is a huge no no. Big fine, your tanks get poison..... ie; Tiliapia. Here is what we are allowed to import, far cry from what is here... “importable†cichlids - a listing. Only the cichlid species detailed on this list may be legally imported into Australia. In September 2005, Cyphotilapia frontosa will be added to the list. A 12cm size limit currently applies but is being negiotiated. * Aequidens pulcher ∼Blue Acara * Apistogramma spp. * Astronotus ocellatus ∼Oscar * Aulonocara spp.∼Peacocks * Benthochromis tricoti * Chalinochromis brichardi * Chalinochromis spp. * Chilotilapia rhoadesii ∼Rhoadesii * Cleithracara maronii ∼Keyhole Cichlid * Copora nicaraguense ∼Parrot Cichlid * Crenicara filamentosa ∼Checkerboard Cichlid * Crenicara maculata ∼Spotted Checkerboard Cichlid * Cyathopharynx furcifer ∼Furcifer * Cyphtilapia frontosa ∼ Frontosa New Addition: October, 2005 * Cyrtocara moori ∼Malawi Dolphin or Moori * Eretmodus cyanostictus ∼Blue Spotted Goby Cichlid * Eretmodus maculatus ∼Spotted Goby Cichlid * Gnathochromis permamaxillaris * Iodotropheus sprengerae ∼Rusty Cichlid * Julidochromis spp. ∼Julies * Laetacara curviceps ∼Flag Cichlid * Laetacara dorsiger ∼Red Breasted Cichlid * Melanochromis auratus ∼Auratus * Melanochromis simulans * Mesonauta festivus ∼Flag Cichlid * Nannacara anomala * Nannacara aureocephalus * Nannacara taenia * Neolamprologus brichardi ∼Princess Cichlid * Neolamprologus cylindricus * Neolamprologus leleupi * Neolamprologus meeli * Neolamprologus mustax * Neolamprologus ocellatus * Ophthalmotilapia spp. * Papiliochromis altispinosa ∼Bolivian Ram * Papiliochromis ramerizi ∼Blue Ram * Paracyprichromis nigripinnis * Pelvicachromis pulcher ∼Kribensis * Pelvicachromis subocellatus ∼Ocellated Kribensis * Pelvicachromis taeniatus * Petrochromis trewavasae * Pterophyllum spp.∼Angelfish * Spathodus erythrodon * Tanganicodus irsacae * Tropheus spp. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoandWilly Posted March 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2007 Going by the cichlid forum i'd say the ones i have are just julie transcriptus, no varient at all, dont look like any of the ones that have a varient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Hiya My thoughts were exactly the same, mine match up to that link aswell No variant, just straight J. trans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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