SpidersWeb Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I've definately got something in possibly two of my tanks. I'll tell the story in order of what happened. First off one of my big Firemouths was getting slugish and looked to have bite marks on him. I figured the cause was the festives, so I moved him and his girlfriend to my 200L tank away from harm. His condition gradually got worse, salt baths provided a short term (about a day) help but he'd soon return to his old condition, then finally deceased. His girlfriend then developed the same condition, it looks like her scales/skin is literally falling off. When giving her a salt bath yesterday, I could see the scales actually fraying away from her body. She is very thin and hasn't eaten in about 2 weeks, lethargic, but still flares up and protects her rock. I can 100% confirm that the marks on her body are NOT from bites, her scales/skin/slimecoat etc look to be just falling off. Few days ago I noticed similar marks on our green severum, I figured he'd just scraped himself on a rock or similar, however I found him dead Wednesday morning (happy valentines). Over the last week another of the Firemouths has become lethargic, and today his body is showing the same problem. I also have an Oscar being lethargic (she's not sulking). So its clearly contagious, but appears to take about 2 weeks to actually kill the fish, and the fish is lethargic before the skin starts to rot. It is not due to water conditions, the severum whom died was given to us with a severe HTH condition, and the holes were closing up on their own and the fish had no bite marks and was in good health. Salt baths seem to help, used in conjunction with Mg Sulfate, Melafix, and Formalin for 10-15 minutes (until the fish rolls over). I dont like doing these much because I'm a) out of salt b) stresses the fish. I also need to treat this so the problem does not spread to other fish. Any idea what this might be? What types of medication should I be looking at? Any home-remidies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1familiarfish Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Im sorry I cant help Spider, but I do want to convey my sympathies, such big losses must be terrible for you! I hope someone can help you and your fish soon!! Best of luck, Shortee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Thanks Shortee Yeah losing the green sev was a big loss for us, he was huge and just recovering from hole-in-the-head :-? All the fish that have been or are infected we have had for a long time, the only possible source I can think of would maybe be our frozen bloodworms, unless I'm forgetting something. I don't have a Q procedure, however haven't added any new fish to the 650L tank for a long time. Some pictures to help: Little guy, just got this today, the white patch above his eye, in real life it looks like sunburn thats just starting to peel (if you know what I mean). Left side of the big female Firemouth. The lighter orange colour is normal for this paticular fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1familiarfish Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 I know youve probably looked online already... Just a thought though... http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/diseasehome.htm Those are some handsome fish... what a shame! Shortee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 One thing that comes to mind is a Costia infestation. "The skin clouds up in some areas, then comes off, leaving bloody patches". Thats the description given by one site. http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/costia.htm Thats the Costia page from FishDoc.co.uk. It mentions lethargy as one of the symptoms Does that sound anything like your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Not sure, this really looks like its eating the flesh away from the fish, during a salt bath a few scales normally fall off. Didn't quite sound like Costia to me, but I don't know really. I really need a microscope :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Don't we all :-? I did come up with another two possibilities, a Saprolegnia (water fungus) infection or Columnaris "White or or discoloured 'cotton-wool' patches on the skin or fins. Often accompanied by inflammation and skin erosion" Thats the description from FishDoc.co.uk http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disea ... mnaris.htm It sounds bacterial to me, which bacteria it could be, I have no idea. I don't like recommending medications without knowing for sure what I'm dealing with, but in NZ there's pretty much only one thing to treat anything bacterial, Furan 2, so I suppose it could be worth a try. I've used this a couple of times myself with a really nasty, stubborn bacterial infection that attacked my Sevs with realyl good results. You can dose up to three times the amount recommended on the packet with no ill effects, I've used a double dose with no problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy_t Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Try calling Mark from the club (pm me if you don't have his number) - he's got a mirco. I think... I've never had to deal with anythink like that but good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks heaps guys great work Tracey looks like you're on the ball, Columnaris looks like a match. Well its a perfect match for the little guy, and close enough for the big lady. It says its contageous from nets etc, which could explain its introduction. The old female Firemouth also has anchor worms now. Nobody else has them but she has these bumps now with little white lines sticking out of them (which I assume is a worm, it doesn't wiggle though). Not too worried about that as I imagine salt will kill them anyway. I'm on a painfully tight budget (out of work for 2 weeks), but will do my best to get either copper sulfate or furan2, more likely the former. Are redspot plecs sensitive to salt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy_t Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 As far as I know the only fish that don't like salt are loaches etc with thin skin. I think the adverage old plec would survive a nuclear war!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Spiderweb, I have one packet of Furan 2 sitting around atm if you need it. I'm down in Lower Hutt, PM me if you'd like it. Pleco's are sensitive to salt, although not as much as scaleless fish like Loaches. You might want to go a little easy on the salt, maybe a half dose and see how the Red Spot reacts to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Thanks heaps for the offer, but I got a few $ together and will get a bag of copper sulphate tomorrow ($6 a bag at Mitre 10). I'll salt as normal, I'll just move the redspot in to another tank. Thanks again guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishy_t Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I can get it for you for cost plus!! You can just go in to the upper hutt one and tell them you are me (I work for one with the same owner in the city so I get my discount but they don't know what I look like ) Let me know if you want to and I'll give you my 'code' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I'm pretty sure its columnaris. Jansens in Mt Eden uses Furan 2 for this and puts all fish affected in the hospital tanks but depending on how bad it is losses are inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Good luck, SpidersWeb, hope they pull thru for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 In many cases, parasites are at work that will infect the and weaken the fish, thereby making themselves vulnerable to {secondary} bacterial infections! Quoted form Gerald Bassler, The new illustrated guide to fish diseases. Judging by the worm comment & the wasting away of your fish. parasites are a problem too. From same book, slight edit...Columnaris Clinical Presentation; This infection often originates at the tail, dorsal fin & extends as a pale white patch over the body......noticeable on skin.....white rotten tissue patches...also destroys the gill tissue...respiration difficulties & wobbling, fish become listless, lose their colour, rest on the bottom or hang at surface & eventually die. From your description & picture, looks about right. Things that scare me, can cause mass mortality. Early detection is a must, to prevent mortality. 12 to 24 hours. In the advanced stage the diseased gills are affected, blood spreads through out the body. Treatment is usually to late. Treatment; Do a 50% water change at commencement of treatment. Water temp at 23 degrees during treatment & for the next 3 days. You need to hit this with long bacterial baths, Nifurpirinol, Enroflaxacin, flumequine, marbofloxcin whatever you have in NZ that is similar. Copper sulphate is more used to treat velvet, unicellular parasites & fungi. This may be good for the worm side of things, but not the Columnaris. Nifurpirinol can be used at the same time as copper sulphate. The salt baths will kill parasites but again won't kill Columnaris. nb; some quotes have had a editing done, just to save me from typing multiple lines. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted March 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2007 Thanks Frenchy Well I found out what the cause was. Somebody (maybe me, maybe not) unplugged the Jebo 819 cannister. We dont use a spray bar or anything so there was no way to tell it was off. When we opened it up it was completely rotten and had to be hosed down. There are internal filters and a huge 5'x2.5' area of gravel to keep the bacteria going, but there must have been a huge ammonia spike. Stupid of me not to test for it but oh well. Along with the filter being resetup, we also did a 50% water change, followed by a 33% water change the next day, fish are looking happier than ever. We got a new green severum, but I really miss the old guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 All ended up good then. Well better than what it could of been. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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