emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 i have just finnished my fishless cycle, and was wondering how much water should i change?? this information may help you; my tank is the AquaStyle 620T... (the middle, black one on the left colum) http://www.aquaone.co.uk/AquaStyle_aquarium.php 130L, : 62W x 38D x 72H cm Lighting: 2x18w PL 7100k each 25"Wx15"Dx28"H the fish i will add after my water change; (please tell me if you think it is tooo much) 4 golden barbs 2 guppies 3 peppered corys 1 moonlight gouramy and then a week or two later 2 baby angels and 2 otocinclus or a bristelnose (do they like driftwood of bog wood?) i will also add around 12 plants, and a large piece of driftwood. hope this information helps thanks emilie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke* Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 90% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Im sorry luke but im going to have to disagree with you. If you are going to do a water change, then only do a smallish one around 25%. The tank is cycled so you shouldnt have to do a water change as it should be free of nitrite, nitrate and ammonia. You only need to water change once these levels get up. Doing a 90% water change will upset the already cycled tank, and most probably send it into another cycle. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilah Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Have to agree with evil on this one, change too much and you will just undo all the good work you tank has already done. Enjoy your tank though its sounds really nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke* Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 You can disagree, but you're wrong. The beneficial bacteria is on the filter material, not in the water. Why do you think my fish are still alive after doing 90% water changes on them everyday??? The larger the water change the better; fish like fresh water. Nitrate is not at zero, it is building up because you're adding ammonia just like fish do! Here's some reading for you: http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/wat ... ling.shtml http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=40119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 You can disagree, but you're wrong. Thats harsh, just chill Why do you think my fish are still alive after doing 90% water changes on them everyday??? Because of the fact you do them everyday. The harmful substances dont have time to build up between water changes. Whats the point in doing a water change when the test kits all read 0, and theres no fish in there? If it was me id put a few fish in, then do a water change in a few days, then slowly build up the biological filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discusguru Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 How can the nitrate be zero if you have just cycled the tank. The bacterial convert the ammonia and nitrite to nitrate. You will have to get rid of the nitrate. I agree with Luke to do a 90% WC. You have to make sure the new water is aged and the water parameter is the same so as not to upset the cycle. That's what I normally do anyway and it works everytime. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 have ya tested the nitrate readings? once you know what theyre at that can tell you how much of a w/c you want to do to get it down to acceptable levels for the fish. if its reading like 10ppm then only do a small one to remove any crud thats built up during the cycle, if its reading 30ppm+ then i would do a larger one, you can do 50% (cause then your nitrates would be at 15ppm which is acceptable) or you can do a larger one, its really up to you. i would not advise doing such a large water change (90%) unless you are used to doing them or have been keeping fish for a while. if you mess it up your bacteria will die off and put you thru at least a mini cycle. if you feel comfortable doing a 90% go for it but IMO you dont NEED to do a 90% unless the nitrates are very high (60ppm+ or so). there is really no benefit to doing a 90% if the nitrates are not reading high and there is very little waste in the tank i dont think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 This is what Luke should of added at the start when he said 90% You have to make sure the new water is aged and the water parameter is the same so as not to upset the cycle. Otherwise the average Joe adding 90% of new water straight from a tap or bucket would do way more harm than good. The water differences will kill the bacteria. I can see where Rogan came from on his reply. Therefore Luke, in replying to your first post Rogan wasn't wrong. May I suggest that if you are going to tell someone to do a water change higher than 30% explain why & how you do it. People can't read minds. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I normally heavily plant a new tank before cycling it and this way the nutrient is mainly used up and the " complete " cycle is taken care of. Nitrate will not do the fish any harm. I would do no water change and only add fish slowly after the plants are established, then do small water changes to get rid of excess nitrate and phosphate to discourage algae growth. A well planted tank with a light number of fish will be in balance and will not need massive and regular water changes. There are a number of ways to do this and I guess you need to do what is best for your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'd go with a standard 20% water change, you're normal weekly cycle from now on. If there is something wrong the fish will tell you by gasping at the surface, or being overally lethargic etc In this case do 30% changes until the fish improve, allowing time in between. This allows the water temperature to settle so you don't shock the fish or bacteria. I'd add the plants as soon as possible (as they suck up the nitrate a bit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 oh thanks so much for the quick replies, though i didn't mean to cause a fight haha yes i read that the only way to get rid of nitrates was to do a water change. my test results are: amo: 0 Nitrite: 0 nitrate: around 40-60 i think i will do a 30% change to start off with, then re-test my water, and if my nitrates are not under 15 i'll to another one... does that sound good? thanks so much again! emilie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 By doing a 90% water change you will remove lots of bacteria. Water does contain a lot of bacteria. I would go with maybe 30% and then do another 1 week on. Also doing a 90% water change means you could kill some of the bacteria in the filters as the water conditions will change drastically like ph and temp which effects bacteria levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 yes, i would never risk doing one that large, :-? ok great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 hey i have decided not to get any angels, because i've read that they need the top to them selves. so maybe this will be my final stock, please tell me if you have any ideas, or if they don't go together... 4 golden barbs 2 guppies 4 pentazona barbs 3 peppered corys 1 moonlight gouramy and 2 otocinclus or a bristelnose i don't know if overstocking will be a problem though my fishies don't grow very fast, and i will have lots of plants. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I think people forget sometimes that it is called cycling because it is the nitrogen cycle and it goes right round. Urea-ammonia-nitrite-nitrate (picked up by plants which then die or throw off outside leaves which rot and break down) The cycle then continues right round as the nitrate gets broken down again. All of this is carried out by mainly different types of bacteria which play their own little part. It is like a living equation and any outside influence throws out the balance and it has to work to get back in to line. With the right conditions bacteria will multiply to fit the food available so if you remove the food for any of the many bacteria playing this game of life they will have to work to restore the balance. I stock planted tanks lightly and do infrequent water changes, and raise fish in bare tanks with lots of water changes. Works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 when i will do my water change, before adding fish... should i touch my substrate (gravel)?? because i have a reasonable amount of rotting, and algea things just sitting on the top of it do you think i should? or could i absorb good bacteria in the gravel?? tanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quack Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 i would do at least 50%+ imo (with dechlorinater). there should be jack all bacteria in the water colum, and all over the filter media as thats what its there for. how did you do you fish less cycle? with fish food or liquid ammo? if the gravel has heaps of crap in it then i would do maybe a 50% gravel syphon but if its rather clean then i would leave it as there is proably bacteria on there and you dont want to desterbe to much or you end up in a little cycle again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 what does imo mean? jack all bacteria what do you mean by this? i did my cycle with prawns, though i have lots of mess on the bottom is because my family couldn't stand the smell of the rotting prawns, so i had to think of something else, so i got some gunk from another filter and put it in the cycling water... and it all fell to the bottom, and some was sucked up by the filter, but there is still quite a bit left. though i just added more prawns anyway, after about 4 days, because my good bacteria was dying without any ammonia to feed it so basicaly prawns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 wops i wasn't meant to quote my writting only the; jack of bacteria... i don't know what you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 By 'jack' he means 'jack all' as in 'not very many' Your good bacteria is mostly housed in the filters and gravel, so changing a large percentage of the water doesn't undo the work, but what others are saying is that big pH and temp swings could harm the bacteria in your filter gravel etc etc etc But you've decided what you are going to do Which is excellent, go with that! I'd syphon off any rotting rubbish on the bottom, but you dont need to clean your gravel as you haven't had any fish to poop-it-up. The bacteria will stick to the gravel, dont worry about sucking it up. If you setup more tanks in the future you can use gravel from your old tank to seed the new one, so you dont have the same cycling dramas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 IMO - In my opinnion IMHO - In my honest opinnion or humble opinion AFAIK - as far as I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 oh thanks so much, so helpful. more questions?? :lol: haha 1) when should i add my plants and driftwood? * after my water change, * wait till my nitrate is below 15 before adding plants and driftwood/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpidersWeb Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Add it whenever you like If your driftwood is small enough, I recommend boiling it to get any tannins out, fresh wood can be a bit of a tea-bag underwater sometimes. The sooner you get the plants in the better, they 'eat' nitrate so they'll be happy as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie5459 Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 oh reali. awesome these were my results this morning ammo: 0 nitrite: 0.30 around abouts nitrate: 40 could i add my plants now even before the water change. or could this hold back my cycle?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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