conference 2004

[Warren]

I am the Vice President of T.A.P.S and I am amazed by the single mindedness of this group of people who are currently charged with the running of the FNZAS. I have noted the the President has basically ignored or dismissed any objections to this offshore venue.

The FNZAS Exec and I are simply supporting the hosting club. There is no single mindedness. As Caryl has stated, it was voted on by the committee and the delegates at Conference and passed.

From what I can remember, this conference was to be held at Christchurch, but they were unable to host, correct me if I'm wrong. Then a certain member with more money than brains decided to take the venue offshore and we were all told it would only cost us one thousand dollars.

The purpose of these forums is not to insult others. Please keep your comments factual. If the person in question is indeed so brainless then how come he is so successful? Also, had you read the minutes of Conference 2002 at your club meeting (standard practice for a club you'd think) you would have been aware of an offshore conference - hence 2 years to save.

Whoopee! we have one year in which to save this pifling amount, the man said just the price of a packet of smokes.

Now I see it's out to three grand and climbing. He also said he would personally write to each member advising cost giving us a choice of venue. He hasn’t done this, all that has been done is to create a vast rift between clubs and members and quite frankly, I'm gutted by the whole concept.

As previously stated, you've had 2 years. So, its a little more than a packet of smokes a week, but not by much... Also, its not $3000, where do you all get this figure from. It will cost no more than $2650

There is no rift, just some discontent, but much of it seems to be caused by a select few who have never attended Conference before or maybe only once or twice.

What's this man going to suggest next.

Taking it offshore has excluded one hell of a lot of people from attending.

I can't guess what John would say next. I'd say 'Get over it'. If we have a conference in Auckland instead, are you going to come? Granted, taking Conference offshore may have excluded a few. However we normally get between 35-50 present. So far we are looking at 30+ people interested in going. I'm expecting we'll get the usual turnout if not more.

Also, there is provision for anyone who is really keen to go but is seriously struggling financially. Its not all doom and gloom, we may be able to help.

As stated in a previous post, all the Conference details will arrive in an info pack with the Conference 2004 Travel Itinerary by the end of January.

[minchton]

Caryl

Where does $3000 come from.

To quote from your own magazine page 31.

Accommodation Quote $1678 or $1560 per person

spending Quote $100 per day =$700

total $2260

In addition we are looking at at least 1 night in Auckland cost $200

Air fares AK return $299

This I think comes close to $3000 when it is considered that these quotes do not include taxes.

In my case there is two fares etc $6000

Training replacement staff as I cannot just close my business when it suits me. two staff @ 4 weeks training + 1 week relief $2500.

Conference in NZ 3 days no relief staff and a lot less than $3000per person for a glorified booze up.

[minchton]

Warren said

"discontent by a few who have never attended conference or just once or twice.

Thank you for making our club aware that we should not send a delegate to conference unless they have attended a large number of them and that they are not to think for or put across the feelings of the club that elected them.

If you dont want this to get personal look at what is being said regarding the displeasure of the way we the members are being treated re lack of information and dont come back with facetious remarks about how easy it is for every person to save the money. Have you ever had to live on a benefit.

[Warren]

Oh dear, still not get through about facts only...

Its not a glorified booze up, it never has been. It's a great oportunity to meet old and new friends and have lots of fun. Some people have a little too much to drink, but that happens in any group. This Conference will also be a great holiday with the tropical fish as well.

I take your point about extra airfares etc. You can drive to Auckland of course and there are cheaper motels or friends (thats where I'm staying - already organised it + I'm driving to Ak from Nap - total cost approx $50 in gas). Others can go to the nearest main center.

You've had 2 years to organise options for your business. However, I have sympathy for those who just cannot or do not have any other options and I believe this is your case Mitch. If you really want to go though...

[Warren]

My comments about attending conference were not intended to have that response. They were simply to suggest that people who have only attended conference once or twice do not know the full history of conference and what it stands for. It just appears there are comments from some that are not justified, especially if they knew who they were talking about and what conference stands for.

I certainly hope all clubs send delegates. Every year there are new people at conference and this is one of the things that make every conference different.

You've been to Conference Mitch and as I recall you had your say on any issue your club had. Noone is left out. We're a very friendly bunch. After all we've survived 51 years and this will be conference number 52.

[Janey]

I have had a quote from my travel agent today for $1449, this is EX WELLINGTON, and includes 7 nights accommodation on plantation island and all fijian taxes, it also includes the airfare from Nadi to Plantation Island. I think that's pretty good!

Also, people are saying that they were told the trip would only cost $1000, well obviously that didn't include spending money!! So the difference between $1000 and $1449 isn't totally horrendous like it is being made out to be.

I really can't understand everyones agro about this, if you want to come, come! If you don't want to or can't afford it - don't! Please stop making those of us who are going and really looking forward to it feel guilty.

Mark and I are so looking forward to it, we are going to spend an extra week there after conference because 7 days just isn't long enough!

[Janey]

Sorry, have just re-read this thread and have a couple more things to add! :-?

I think the people complaining are forgetting that it wasn't just a few people who wanted a holiday that decided to have conference 2004 offshore, it was decided by a majority vote at the 2002 conference in Napier and each club had the opportunity to have their say then. It is too late to be complaining about it now, the decision has already been made.

The snorkelling at Hideaway Island in Vanuatu was good, but we were staying on the island so could walk out of our room and into the water It is a 15 minute bus ride from Port Vila and then 5 minutes by ferry to the island, it costs 500 vatu (approx $7.50) to gain access to the island. There was a lady with her 3 young daughers staying there at the same time as us who were very disappointed with the snorkelling. If you are a 'hard-core' snorkeller like myself and Mark it is great, you can get out past all the broken trodden-on dead coral to the good stuff. But we were at least a few hundred metres off-shore and were duck-diving down to probably about 5 metres so not really good for kids, oh yeah and some of our snorkelling sessions lasted for over 1.5 hours! Also they had a bad cyclone through there in January last year so a lot of the coral is just rubble. There are still some great fish to see though.

The logistics of giving everyone a choice of venue made it just not possible. The pricing for June has only just become available from travel agents - yes, it's true, all the current specials were only released after Christmas.

As for getting someone to look after your pets.. surely that is a small consideration? It sure isn't going to stop us going, and we have a marine tank that needs daily maintenance, two cats, and a (very cute) house rabbit who needs daily attentions also. Where there is a will there is a way and if you really want to go you will overcome all these problems.

Look at me, I have written another novel, oh dear

[Pies]

Bruce said this.

"We I tend to disagree

Hideaway Island has what is considered to be the best snorkling in the Pacific region (If not the world)

Cost, well we have done quite a bit of homework on this, prcing is comparitive to Fiji

I keep my best interest in mind by making a choice"

This is funny. Bruce did you get this straight from the brochure?

Hideaway island was great. I would say that the snorkeling however is very AVERAGE. Thats right, AVERAGE. Infact of all the places I dived and snorkeled in Vanautu hideaway island was by far the worst. Don't belive me? I have photos. To compare Hideaway island to Hat Island (both in Vanautu) is a tradgedy.

I would say that its a good spot for the unadventureus, novice or inexperanced snorkeler. Someone who only wants to see dead crushed coral or tame hand fed fish. However if you want to see a coral reef in its full glory, this isn't the place. It looks very sick and sad.

As for the best in the Pacific (or the world), you are very, VERY uninformed. I have dived and snorkeled all over (indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vanautu) and belive someone who has been there, its not, and if that what you are telling others, you are being very dishonest.

As for the costs, all you need to do is look it up. I suspect that Vanautu will be twice the cost of Fiji, if not more. You only need do a simple search on the Internet and compare prices of food and drink to give you an idea (you can't really compare activities as there are none in Vanautu compared to Fiji).

And thats why I posted. Personally I don't care if you come or not. I do however think is wrong for you to attempt some sort of lame boycott of the FNZAS hard work to go offshore because you simply didn't get your way. If you have told anyone that Vanautu has better diving/snorkeling that Fiji, or is cheaper, you have lied. I hope that those who have brought into your deception get to read this post, and I save them the dissapointment you would bring upon them.

If you are unhappy with the way the FNZAS works, how about getting involved and trying to contribute in a positivle way. It so much harder to be positive than negative, so much harder to build something than distroy it. I will full support all of the hard work of those invloved in the FNZAS, as they give up a considarable amout of their own personal time to try and organise things like this for the rest of us, and I feel we should support their decisions, not continually criticise them.

Mark

[seaturtle]

We have been looking forward to attending an offshore confrence and catching up with many old friends

But sadly feel let down by a lack of comunication. And what information we have recived is left with more questions than answers.

I have read all of the threads regarding the 04 confrence and felt compelled to respond!

waiting for flight deals to come out is nothing more than an excuse for poor organisation. Come on people this is a confrence we are talking about we should have been presented with an itinery and final price to decide wether it would be suitable for our whole family to attend or adults only!

It doesnt matter where any confrence is being held on or offshore, people need facts and figures up front and these do not seen to be forth coming.

A well organised break in Vanartu seems more apealing than waiting around for a message from the FNZAS to send me information through the club news letter!

[cat]

Well my two cents for what it is ....

I have read these posts (twice) and I must admit I cannot believe people are so negative. Aren't we all adults? Some of these comments are what I expect to hear in the school yard. We are all just fish enthusiasts that enjoy coming together and exchanging ideas, experiences and to learn more of a hobby that we all enjoy. All this anger only serves to keep people apart and slowly undermine clubs.

Clubs find it hard enough to attract members. Imagine all the guests to this forum reading this and thinking "we dont want to be part of these so-called clubs if all they can do is bicker over meeting together".

Clubs also find it hard enough to organise a one day event and get members to participate. I take my hat off to the people involved in trying to get this conference off the ground and be a success! The amount of time and effort involved would more than many of us would be prepared to give - and freely too! Seems everyone is so consumed with 'their time is money' nowadays that we forget that these people are doing all of us a favour and trying to orgainse a holiday that we can all enjoy.

I think that just because we all havent received a personal letter etc is a poor excuse. I have only been around in the club for a little over a year and half and I heard about on numerous occasions from various people. The logistics (and cost) of sending out letters etc isnt required when it seems most people are aware of it. You only have to read these posts to see people knew of the planned trip away to somewhere. Unless you live a hermit life and dont attend any club meetings etc etc then I cannot see how people didnt know it was happening. All should have put a few dollars away each week and that way, regardless of where it was, you would of had quite a large proportion of the cost already saved. $15 per week would have been close to $1500 and there is the large majority of the costs paid for. That really isnt a lot weekly and yes I have lived on a benefit before so I know exactly what it is like to struggle. This is one nights worth of fish and chips or one packet of cigarettes etc. Not too hard to do and instead of buying a fish or two (or three or four ..... ) maybe that should have been put that aside instead.

As far as not being able to go due to jobs, pets etc. We all have busy lives filled to the brim with responsibilities. I myself have a small 'zoo' which requires amazing organisation just to go away overnight but that would not stop me from a weeks holiday in a relaxing spot. What happens if any of you people have to go to a funeral or are sick? We all just get in and manage! I cant believe that none of you dont take a break at some time during the year and have friends, family etc step in and help out. Even teenage school kids can be a huge help and they are sometimes more dedicated that adult helpers. :lol:

Well that is more than two cents worth I know. Come on people. We are just people that enjoy our hobby. If you all cant just go with the flow and enjoy a holiday away then there is no point going as you would only bring everyone else down by being unhappy. A holiday is a holiday!!!! Who cares where. As long as it is sunny, has warm water and nice beaches I couldnt think of anything nicer to have a break at. I am sure with so many of us people in the one spot there wouldn't be a dull moment or nothing to do. Besides arent we going to have a conference? Not be moaning cause this place has better diving or this place has better food etc. Maybe next time conference should be organised for Taihape (not knocking the place). Cheap and if you are into gumboot throwing then you would be in heaven. No one place is going to be the perfect place for everyone but lets just all go and enjoy being together and sharing information etc. I am sure that there would be something for everyone to do.

Congrats again to all those involved in this venture. I am sure that the best deal has been worked out so we can all just go away and enjoy ourselves. These people that have organised this are doing this for OUR enjoyment not just their own. This is a group thing. Clubs should be behind it whether it is exactly what they had hoped for or not. Hopefully it turns out to be a success.

Keep up the good work guys. Without your dedication there may not even be a FNZAS!

[ajbroome]

Warren said...

> If the person in question is indeed so brainless then how

> come he is so successful?

Yes, because wealth and intelligence are almost exactly the same thing!

Not knocking John, I've known him since my first conference in 1987

(or whenever it was, Napier anyhow) and he's a bright cookie as well

as being a successful businessman.

> ... some discontent, but much of it seems to be caused by a

> select few who have never attended Conference before or

> maybe only once or twice.

I think that arguement is a bit dubious since I've not seen many

of the more vocal supporters at very many conferences either.

If we're having a competition, how many have you been to Warren?

Is it better to blindly accept everything a group does or to reject

it out of hand? To me, both seem to be equally a bad a idea.

I do think people (from both 'sides' of the discussion) should watch

their implied tone when posting messages here and to re-read them

before hitting the 'submit' button (if only to check the spelling ).

Calling someone a 'liar' in public isn't going to win anyone any friends.

It's never a good idea to type something you wouldn't say to a

persons face. How bad can the other person be, they keep fish

don't they?

Andrew, still hoping for a successful 2004 conference.

[minchton]

this I hope will be my last word on this topic.

Some people seem to think that it is my intention to knock the whole idea of an overseas conference. Not by any means. I personally dont agree with the idea but at the last conference the decision was made and as a supporter of the federation I will accept the majority decision.

When I started this topic my criticism was about the lack of information available and what was the federation doing about it.

This topic now seems to have degenerated into a slanging match with the fors and against. Rather unseemly and to no benefit to anybody.

There is also now a lot of rubbish information being posted. Please lets stay with the facts.

As I understand it this is the correct sequence of history in this matter.

1. conference 2002 voted to hold the 2005 conference off shore.

At the time the 2004 conference was to be held in Christchurch.

2. The minutes of the executive in November 2002 stated "unable to

contact John Eastwood. Canterbury has not yet formally resigned as

host for the 2004 conference.

3. Conference 2003 voted to hold the 2004 conference offshore.

4. At the same conference John Eastwood said he had started and all

interested should start saving about $1000 for the trip.

No mention of extras like $100 per day spending etc.

5. the conference could be held at Gold Coast or Fiji. Hawkes Bay countered by saying they had good support from their club for Vanuatu.

6. A statement was made that all members would be contacted by the

end of July giving them the option of where to go.

7. We were finally given some information through Aquarium World in

November 2003.

These are the facts as I know them so neither myself nor any other member of the federation needs to be fed facetious statements like you have had 2years to save, you should have known that the costs would have been more etc,etc.

As with any best intentions things do not always work out as planned and I appreciate that this has happened in this case. All I ever wanted was to be kept informed by the executive at the earliest possible time and confirmation that they were keeping a close watch on the situation and not allowing matters to drift as unfortunately happened the previous year.

Regardless of if I am at the conference or not I still support the federation and wish everbody who attends a good CONFERENCE.

[Warren]

Andrew, I've been to 5 conferences and 2 Killifish conferences. I've been on the exec for 5 years also. In that time I've learnt much about the FNZAS and its history. A project I'm working on has meant I've read a lot of the documentation associated with the FNZAS as well. While I don't know nearly as much as some I still believe I'm qualified to make the statements I have. I try to get my facts right before making a statement, - it saves a lot of egg on face later. I agree with the implied tone comment. I've tried to keep my comments as diplomatic as possible but haven’t always succeeded. I'll refrain from such future comments and only answer questions.

I'm looking forward to everything settling down too. The information is currently being prepared for all members. Please keep in mind that a proper itinerary with exact timing and costings can only be sent once the information is available. It became available mid December and we've been working out the finer details since then. The Christmas / New Years break has made the problem worse with most travel agent being either closed or too busy to get a quote out quickly. Now is about the normal time FNZAS info packs and registration forms are sent out anyway.

All FNZAS members will receive their info packs before the end of January.

I've organised a local Conference in the past (Napier 2002) and know what’s involved. It is a very time consuming process and the checking and rechecking of details is vital. Its even worse now as most of the communication is internationally based and comes through travel agents adding even bigger delays.

I'm sorry the information hasn't be forthcoming earlier, but please be patient for another couple of weeks and all will be revealed.

[ajbroome]

Warren said...

> I've been to 5 conferences and 2 Killifish conferences.

The NZKA doesn't have 'conferences' it has an 'AGM' as all FNZAS

clubs should.

Andrew.

[Warren]

Oops, I stand corrected, AGM's.

[dave]

Well happy new year rember me the person who cheer the last two FNZAS AGM.

Firstly i fully support the offshore confence and i am really dissapointed after reading the previous few post how negative some people are being .

Facts are that the idea of an offshore confence was decided on at napier with POSTIVE support from all of those who attended and we also had a large marojrity of support in Blemhim this year . Those who think that there has not been much work done towards this goal are not really up with the play or have fail to comucate with the Exec . Remeber comucation is a two way thing .

I cannot imagine how much work and effort John has put into this and i for one am very grateful for this . I am sure that it will be a very sucessful confence and those who decide to go elsewhere that would be dissapointing . I have attened a few confences and i really enjoy catching up with all of my friends within the FNZAS and aslong as i can i will contine to do so .

This brings us to that other grizzle cost well i for one have been saving for the offshore confece as we have been well aware of this for the last two years . I am planning on taking Linda and this will cost but it will be worth it . I flew from Hamilton to Blemhin last year and all up including confence cost about $700.

The other matter of choice which i admit nexver happenned which a couple of people are also not happy about well this directly relates to the reaseach that John and Rowan have done . John in his wisdom which there is plenty of made the chioce of Fiji for all his reasons which i can't qute remeber right now but whatever they were i trust him and so should you .

Finnally i am really looking forward to confece and lets make this another POSTIVE year for the FNZAS.

Dave Dalziel

FNZAS Imediate past president