conference 2004

[minchton]

Not having received, nor knowing anybody who has received a personal letter re the venue etc for the 2004 conference the Taranaki Aquarium and Pond society Board would be interested to gather some information on any proposed gathering.

Maybe because at the last Conference we as a Club were not in favour of an overseas venue it has been decided by the FNZAS that Taranaki is no longer recognised as a member club. Or maybe it is the usual situation that give the job to one person and that person will decide who will be personna non-gratia.

When first muted we were told that we would be given a costing and have 12 months to save the fare. This is now less than six months away. We were also advised that we would each be written to individually and given a choice of venue. Where is our choice????

So PLEASE are we going to get any information in the near future or are we to be left in the dark until after the event

M.A. Minchington

President

Taranaki Aquarium & Pond Society

Affilliated member Club of FNZAS

[Caryl]

Information is in the next AW Mitch. Sorry there has been a delay in printing but these things happen some times.

Since it has been confirmed the next conference will be overseas since last conference, that will have been 12 months for people to save. I have certainly been doing so in anticipation.

I think an overseas conference is better than no conference at all, which is what would have happened as no club would volunteer as host for 2004.

Who is this one person you are talking about and what are they deciding exactly?

[minchton]

Caryl

I dont want to start a slanging match on this forum BUT I quote from "fish Tales" November 2003

Under heading "general business", meeting held 15 October.

"Letter from John Eastwood about possible locations for the next FNZAS Conference."

Where is our letter from what appears to be the one person organising the trip

Mitch

[Caryl]

It is in the next AW. John Eastwood volunteered to scout out locations and that is what he has been doing - he was asked to by the exec. Rowan Lee has been doing so too and between them they have visited several locations looking at prices, ease of travel etc

[Warren]

Please be patient Mitch. John has been doing the work. He has taken an enormous amount of time to prepare information for us. He has personally visited many venues and has recommendations that are excellent.

As Caryl said, we have known since last conference that the 2004 conference would be offshore and we should be saving. Hopefully everyone intending to go has been putting money aside. The Aquarium World is due very soon and reveals all. We still have six months to go. You can't even book a flight yet + the specials haven't yet been released.

The Taranaki Club is still considered a valuable member of the FNZAS. If you have any issues or reasons for thinking the FNZAS is neglecting you please e-mail me directly so we can put them to rest.

Best Regards

Warren Stilwell

President

Federation of New Zealand Aquatic Societies Incorporated

[Bruce]

With regards to the comments from Wanganui, there are quite a few members from Hawkes Bay who have asked the same question,

"Where Is The Choice"

I have written extensively in our Club magazine over the past year or so as to the choices our club members would have as to where they would like to go for an offshore conference, now dont I feel like an Idiot that It hasnt happened the way it was meant to.

Yes it is true that the confernce is organised by the host club, but the FNZAS Exec needed to make sure that this 1st offshore conference is a success.

I dont think the Exec has done a good job on this at all and need to take a very objective look at what has happened to date.

We all know as to what has been promised and what has been delivered, what has the Exec been doing since October 2003 when the ball was meant to start rolling on this?

So....

I will give those who want it a choice, either they can attend the conference in Fiji or they can come to Vanuatu with some of the members of the Hawkes Bay Club and others

As I pointed out to conference delegates in 2003, there was a greater preference from HB members to go to Vanuatu over any other destination and this post reflects that

Dates and Hotel Choice are still under discussion at this point

We are trying to get competive pricing on rates so it makes it affordable for all, including family rates for those with kids.

If any others are interested in Vanuatu then you can contact me

Bruce

[Warren]

Hi Bruce,

There is not a lot that can be done until now other than research as pricing and flight details are only just becoming available. Very soon (by the end of January) you and all other FNZAS members will receive an itinerary outlining the flights, departure dates, times and costs. A lot of work has been done already. The research has been extensive. The choice of Fiji is for a number of very good reasons…

The beach is close at hand.

You can snorkel directly off the beach with free swimming equipment (no scuba).

All non-motorised sports / activities are free (at the hotel).

There is far less comercialisation.

It is cheaper overall.

The venue is perfect with plenty of options for group activities within walking distance.

None of the above features are available at Vanuatu without paying $$, do the research for yourself and you’ll find out. Vanuatu is very comercialised by comparison. When you make your inquiry, remember to book for a group of 50 or more, - believe it or not it changes things quite a bit.

The flight and accommodation prices for Fiji are approx $1650 with final details included in the itinerary which is currently being prepared. The prices for the same dates in Vanuatu are only $50.00 less but the cost of travel, food and entertainment eat up the $50 saving in less than a day. I know you are going to argue that there are special deals at a much cheaper cost. Well, go and book for 50+ people once again and see if you get the same deal. There are very limited deals available on a single flight or group of flights. Don’t believe me, go check for yourself. You'll also find it's peak season...

The choice has been left out for a couple of reasons. The main two are;

1. It will waste a lot of time. By the time everyone decides and the bookings are made and paid for there is the real chance someone will miss out. (By the time pricing is available, letters are sent out and come back it will be months).

2. Not everyone will be happy anyway no matter where we go.

Here’s what’s going to happen:

We go to Fiji

The itinerary tells everyone which flight the majority of people will travel on.

You can choose the package deal at a discounted rate or find your own way.

All payment is to a single travel agent. There will be no free flights for anyone (organisers included).

I’m sorry to all the people who were expecting a choice. The decision to go to Fiji has been made based off cost, suitability of the venue and entertainment (you can’t just go swim with the fish at Vanuatu). We are keeping your best interest in mind…

I’m sorry if you’re upset by the decision Bruce. It’s not a personal attack on you. There seems to be a little heat in your post. It’s certainly not your place to invite others to an alternative venue. If you wish to plan a trip at the same time please don’t influence others using the FNZAS website. If you want to go at a different time that’s ok. It will be disappointing if you don’t reconsider Fiji as an option. John has put in a lot of effort to research the venues. He has visited all of them in the last six months to check their suitability. The FNZAS exec has a supervisory role for the hosting club. We have received good reports and things are progressing well, - check your FNZAS exec meeting minutes and you’ll see what I mean.

Best Regards

Warren Stilwell

FNZAS President

[minchton]

Bruce

Thank you and the HB club for supporting our stand.

I was beginning to think that no-one cared about protocol as long as they had a holiday.

Every time any question is asked about this supposed conference we get accused of stirring etc etc. Nothing has changed as far as I can see. Everytime a question is asked the answer will be given next week! next month! or maybe after the conference has been completed.

In spite of the assurance given in June 2003 that this conference would not cost much more than one in NZ the figures seem to be growing and growing to the extent that the approx $1000 per person now appears to be around the $3000 mark for our members.

This rubbish about waiting for fare information is also a load of rubbish as I can and have walked past a number of travel agents and picked up current brochures with prices for 5jan to 30 jun.

Please somebody on the exec get your act together and get some progress made.

Sorry I now see that as members we are not allowed to make suggestions on this site, which could be construed as a criticism.

In that case please ignore all I have said. It may offend somebody.

[Warren]

Bruce

Thank you and the HB club for supporting our stand.

I was beginning to think that no-one cared about protocol as long as they had a holiday.

Every time any question is asked about this supposed conference we get accused of stirring etc etc. Nothing has changed as far as I can see. Everytime a question is asked the answer will be given next week! next month! or maybe after the conference has been completed.

In spite of the assurance given in June 2003 that this conference would not cost much more than one in NZ the figures seem to be growing and growing to the extent that the approx $1000 per person now appears to be around the $3000 mark for our members.

This rubbish about waiting for fare information is also a load of rubbish as I can and have walked past a number of travel agents and picked up current brochures with prices for 5jan to 30 jun.

Please somebody on the exec get your act together and get some progress made.

Sorry I now see that as members we are not allowed to make suggestions on this site, which could be construed as a criticism.

In that case please ignore all I have said. It may offend somebody.

Mitch you can organise it if you like, - you'll see very quickly that I'm right. Your colour brochure is intended for a couple or family travelling at that time. If you are one of the first to book the trip you'll get it at that time and rate. However, the other 250 people on the plane won't, they'll pay the standard rate. Next time, stop and go into the travel agent, don't just walk past...

I don't seem to be getting through to some of you. A lot of work has been done already. As previously stated, pricing (real pricing that is) is only just becoming available. Go and make a booking for 50 people yourself if you don't beleive me. Please don't stand in a glass house throwing rocks.

Constructive critisism is fine and well received if it is valid. Destructive critisism is not and disrupting the FNZAS conference falls in into that category...

You've also known about the trip for 18 months. You should know by now that if John says he'll do something it will damn well happen. So with 2 years to save and the total dollar requirement being $1650 + spending money (say $1000), thats approx $2650 required. That works out to be $110.41 per month or $25.48 per week. It's not really a lot to ask for. If you are keen at all its not a lot to put aside.

[Warren]

When the itinerary comes out its likely to detail a deposit requirement for the flight and accomodation.

It's most likely going to be $500.00 It will need to be paid before the end of February. This shouldn't be a problem for people who've been saving for the trip as they will already have most of the money required to go.

[Bruce]

This will be my last post on this subject

The Facts are

I do have a right to invite others on a trip I and a dozen or so others are going on. Just as every member has a right to do so.

Chances are that it will not clash with the FNZAS Conference

Yes, there is a little heat in my previous post, and well deserved in my opinion as well as others belonging to the FNZAS.

I and others have considered Fiji as an option. It was decided that it was not suitable for a number of reasons, personal preference was the overriding one. Cost was not an issue at all.

Warren Said

I’m sorry to all the people who were expecting a choice. The decision to go to Fiji has been made based off cost, suitability of the venue and entertainment (you can’t just go swim with the fish at Vanuatu). We are keeping your best interest in mind…

We I tend to disagree

Hideaway Island has what is considered to be the best snorkling in the Pacific region (If not the world)

Cost, well we have done quite a bit of homework on this, prcing is comparitive to Fiji

I keep my best interest in mind by making a choice

This is no way connected to the HBAS, this is my and others personal views

/Bruce

[Warren]

I do have a right to invite others on a trip I and a dozen or so others are going on. Just as every member has a right to do so.

As I stated earlier, not if it is detrimental to the FNZAS. If you wish to invite others on another trip then start a new thread. There should be no reference to Conference 2004 and try not to have it clash timing wise.

Its great you are planning an alternative trip and I hope its succesful. I'm sure all who go will really enjoy it. We will miss you at conference. If I had the money, I'd go to Vanuatu and Fiji. However, I am committed to going to the FNZAS Conference and it is in Fiji (and I am poor). Next time maybe...

[Warren]

Yes, there is a little heat in my previous post, and well deserved in my opinion as well as others belonging to the FNZAS.

I'd be very interested in hearing from others who are disgruntled. It appears there are a very small minority who need to complain about something. So far we've only heard from 2 people who say they represent many. Lets hear from the others, stand up and have your say...

Please prove me wrong and I'll munch through a big helping of humble pie. :oops:

Come on, lets be pro-active instead of reactive and keep our comments factual not emotive!

[Caryl]

We have been saving since the decision to go off-shore. It would have been nice to have a club offer to host this year but since they didn't, Grant and I are happy to go wherever John plans. We have been amazed at the time and effort he has put into this and know we are going to have a fantastic time.

[Carol]

Here's my little bit. We have had 18mths to organize our finances. There are only two decisions to be made.

1: Do I want to go?

2: How will I manage the money bit?

I'm on a limited and fixed income but I intend to go even if things will be a bit thin for a while. At present I have enough to be able to swim half the way over and all the way back but I'm still going. If your answer to number 1 is No then get off the deck and make room for those of us who wish to attend the conference and have a bit of fun as well. Carol.

[ajbroome]

Warren said...

> I'd be very interested in hearing from others who are disgruntled.

I'm not disgruntled and don't claim to represent anyone other than myself but I honestly can't see me (or anyone else from PNAS (other than Rowan - funnily enough I was talking to him about it today) or the NZKA for that matter) making the trip to Fiji at this stage. When the cost was approx. $1000 and there was a choice of venue I was interested but now the price has gone up and the venue has been set to somewhere that doesn't overly interest me, I think I'll be saving my money.

I am a little concerned about how many clubs will have actual delegates (not proxies) at this conference and if a quorum can be reached.

An offshore conference was always going to be a brave plan and I still hope it works out for those that attend. Good luck.

Andrew.

[Warren]

Thanks Andrew,

We'll get a quorum alright. Its one of the things I want to set up a remit for. At present a quorum is fairly undefined and consists of a simple majority, ie more than 50% (but 50% of what... well this is undefined). This is only six people, not enough in my view. However, thats what remits are for, - submit one then everyone can decide... All I'm proposing is we look at the issue and set some guidelines. Watch out for the remit...

Its a pity the price is so high, it will be the deciding factor for a lot of people. Its going to be fantastic however so to me the price isn't a problem (well it is but I'm still going). I hope PNAS and NZKA can both send representitives and not proxies...

[Alan]

Well Rose and I had both decided we would save up so I could go,

and up to last Conference we were ahead of target, but as usual,

due to unforseen circumstances,

the money had to be used for other things.

So my name will be off the list. bummer

Alan

[Warren]

Very sorry to hear that Alan. You've been to many conferences haven't you?

[rosemary]

Whilst I consider a Conference overseas is a splendid idea my only concern is the problems it seems to be causing amongst Fish Club members. By the time the bookings are all sorted and meals etc accounted for it seems as if the costs will be in the vicinity of $3,000.

Now for a lot of people this is a lot of money to put forward for a week away staying in the in the one place. I wonder if anyone considered a cruise (not an expensive one but according to the brochures they run from New Zealand on the ":Pacific Sky" July and August 2004 and the prices range from $1474 friendly four to $2134. The ship certainly holds more than 50 people and I'm sure the Cruise directors would be quite able to find a suitable venue for a conference in between ports. These prices of course cover accomodation, all meals, live entertainment, movies, dancing etc. etc Of course I also realise a lot of people would not fancy this type of holiday but price wise in comparison it would in my view be good value and give a greater variety of destinations.

[rosemary]

The idea of an oversea con was great an I would love to attend but the cost is getting to high for a sort time.

Were did the 2 yrs come from please, first I heard was when our delicate reported back to me as secratary in our July committee meeting in 2003.

Yes the weekly saving started but for me to go I have to consider a big big task WHO LOOKS AFTER MY PETS AND HOUSE NEVER MIND WHO WILL DO MY SMALL JOB , while I.m away. This all adds to a definite decision so far of not going now. But to everyone else have fun where ever you decide.

Secondaly the reference to letters or more info by a certain date etc keeps coming throu but so far only a DEFINITE DECISION IT WILL BE IN

FIJI. Sorry this to me dosen't give me a choice of venue again as was mentioned from beginning.

Thirdly even if we all did go as a happy family gathering there are still members in my club who couldn't aford to go at this later stage even saving the first price of $1200 pp which now is looking over the $3000.

[ajbroome]

Rosemary said...

> Were did the 2 yrs come from please, first I heard was

> when our delicate reported back to me as secratary in

> our July committee meeting in 2003.

To the best of my knowledge, the idea of an offshore conference

was first suggested by John Eastwood at the 2002 conference in

Napier.

Andrew.

[Straps]

I am the Vice President of T.A.P.S and I am amazed by the single mindedness of this group of people who are currently charged with the running of the FNZAS. I have noted the the President has basicaly ignored or dismissed any objections to this offshore venue.

From what I can remember, this conference was to be held at Christchurch, but they were unable to host, correct me if I'm wrong. Then a certain member with more money than brains decided to take the venue offshore and we were all told it would only cost us one thousand dollars. Whoopee! we have one year in which to save this pifling amount, the man said just the price of a packet of smokes.

Now I see it's out to three grand and climbing. He also said he would personally write to each member advising cost giving us a choice of venue. He has'nt done this, all that has been done is to create a vast rift between clubs and members and quite frankly, I'm gutted by the whole concept.

What's this man going to suggest next.

Taking it offshore has excluded one hell of a lot of people from attending.

[Caryl]

This all came about because we could not get any club willing to host conference 2004. Without a host there was no conference. Some, over the years, have suggested conferences are a waste of time and money and should be done away with. Any time this was said they were loudly shouted down and told how conference was a great chance for us to get together socially while also dealing with the necessary business of the AGM and they were not to be dismissed.

We could have said "Right, no one will host it so we will not have a conference in 2004, we will just have the AGM somewhere." Then John came up with the suggestion (at the 2002 conference) of an off-shore week long trip. At first everyone thought it too expensive and unworkable but after much discussion it was decided, BY THE MAJORITY PRESENT, that the idea had merit and John was given the mandate to proceed with looking into venues.

The plan to send out a letter in November to all turned out to be unfeasable for a number of unforseen reasons but that did not stop a lot of work being done behind the scenes scouting out venues and costs etc.

We were aware from the beginning that it would be out of reach of some but I have been amazed at the number of those who have felt it worth the effort and started saving. Most of these keen members do not have a lot of money, me included. My husband and I run our own company but have been working towards closing it for the time we are away and I am taking time off from my other job elsewhere. We will have a neighbour's boy look after our pets, as we do whenever we manage to go away.

Where has this $3,000 cost come from? I don't see it costing us that much.

As for the description of John as having 'more money than brains'. I find this most offensive and appreciate all the work he has done ON BEHALF OF THE FNZAS AT THEIR REQUEST.

Yes, going off-shore will certainly exclude some but, even if we could have found a willing host club, internal travel would exclude others. It cost me $1000 to attend North Shore's conference and that was just for a weekend!

I think Carol summed it up well.

[Caryl]

By the way, I am pleased to see some actually read their Aquarium World. Don't forget you are welcome to write letters to the editor. Your views will reach more members than in here.