Camillanus/Camallanus

[purplecatfish]

Is there someone who has successfully treated their tank for these parasites :evil: . I know how to identify them (red worm protruding from the vent) and I have heard that effective treatments include: levamisole, fenbendazole and piperazine (I find it hilarious to think of fish on party pills :lol: (and nightclubbers on cat worming tablets :lol: ))

What I can't find, is agreement on dosing. How much? How often? For how long? What water change regime is necessary between doses?

My angels and mollies definitely have them but it doesn't seem to affect the angels spawning. Other tank residents are Bristlenoses (who are also breeding), Chain Loaches, Skunk Loaches, and Hara Hara Cats (aka Asian moth Cats).

[antwan]

Hey there, I had camillanus in some of my fish a while back, and got given some Levamisole, it worked a treat and the fish were fine throughout the whole process. Here's how it goes.

Do a really big water change; 90% or so making sure to vacuum the bottom of the tank well. Add the amount of levamisole needed for your sized tank (1mL per 20L) (pays to get a cup of aquarium water and mix in the levamisole to that, then tip it into the tank). Make sure to monitor your fish well throughout the medication, you can do a 48 hour treatment if the fish look fine, but 24 hours will suffice. After the 24/48 hours do another massive 90% water change making sure to vacuum the bottom really well again. Wait two weeks, then repeat the whole process.

Hopefully your fish will be fine after this.

[caserole]

There is a nasty catch to this parasite.

That is if you have a really bad infection you will need antibiotics as well.

The reason the worms are red is they are sucking your fishes BLOOD!!

So when they are removed the fish have open wounds in their gut.

A small infection can be cleaned up with out bacterial infection - it's the bad infections that have complications in this way for the most part.

antwan said

making sure to vacuum the bottom of the tank well.

This statement can not be understated, you vac the gravel to REMOVE worm eggs - that's why a second treatment is required.

Good luck

[purplecatfish]

Thanks Antwan.

Wow a 90% waterchange , any hints on how to reduce the shock beside stressguard. And I've got glosso as a ground cover so vacuuming up the cyst/larvae stages is going to be awkward.

What does everyone think about doing a third treatment?

[caserole]

Fish can handle a 90% water change as long as the temp is right and the water has at least 24 hours aging.

Some discus breeders do it every day and there fish look - WOW - and grow fast.

as for a third treatment instead of gravel vac -

Well that's up to you but what antwan wrote is what is recommended and has worked best for others.

As you consider how you will treat your fish I can not under sate how nasty this parasite is the last thing you want is a bad infection !!!!!!

[purplecatfish]

Hi Caserole

I meant as well as a gravel vac.

The tank is quite heavily planted in some places with large pieces of swamp wood and some kiaua rocks (Echinodorus specimens with clumps of crypts in the mid ground, twisted val back ground and glosso ground cover) and I'm not sure that I can give all the gravel a really good vacuum.

How do I tell if the infestation is bad? :-? The angels have been spawning with it but I now think it was the cause of some molly deaths a few months back.

Also what would a good antibiotic to use?

Thanks for the luck and advice.

Time to go home and see how they're doing.

[purplecatfish]

Oh and I forgot to mention its a 305 litre tank so a 90% water change will mean I have to age about 270 litres of water. I guess I'll need to get a couple of wheelie bins or something.

[caserole]

A really bad case means there are lots of worms sticking out of the ... ,

I can see changing 250+ LT could be a problem but it has to be done.

As your not able to really get into the nocks and crannys ( sounds like a nice tank ) you may as well do a third treatment.

But keep an eye on the fish during the treatment and after to make sure you have cleared it.

If it does not work you may have to bite the bullet and strip the tank of plants, wood and rock but only as a last resort.

[evilknieval69]

If it does not work you may have to bite the bullet and strip the tank of plants, wood and rock but only as a last resort.

If it came to that, could you just pull all the fish out and treat them, then treat the tank and do a water change and then leave it 'fishless' for 6 weeks or so? Surely any remaining worms wouldnt survive without any fish? I know that it would be better than ripping heaps of plants etc out....

[caserole]

Tank space, if they don't not have buckets/spare tank for 250lt's + for water changes, then that could be a problem too.

I did say "may".....either way a new plan of attack would have to be used.

[evilknieval69]

Yea i know you said may, but was just questioning to know if it would survive without hosts (fish) or if it would die eventually....?!?!

[purplecatfish]

Hi Evilknieval ,

I started this thread because I wanted advice from someone with actual experience in treating these :evil: parasites (thanks again antwan ). The theoretical research is the easy part and it goes something like this:

Camallanus is a genus of roundworms/nematodes with about 27 species. They have a life cycle which requires an intermediate host and can have 5 stages in their life-cycle (not including eggs). It is a livebearer as the eggs develop inside the female before being released as a motile larvae which sit in the bottom of the water column. The 5th stage can live for almost six months, the early couple of stages are usually about 2 weeks.

However us fishkeepers have been exerting an evolutionary pressure on these parasites and it has been shown in Norwegian studies that C. cotti, (which is one of the more common aquarium species), can now reproduce with both direct and indirect life-cycles.

I've recently given two pairs of angels to a friend who is going to try the piperazine treatment (Angels on party pills :lol: ). While I'm going to try the levamisole method (we are currently waiting for the meds to show up). At least he is in a situation where the fish have only been in the tanks for a week so there won't be a a large population

of larvae to deal with.

Oh and I've just found a dead Hara Hara Cat in the tank

[caserole]

Sorry to here, but it could have died from anything.

I've seen some realy bad infections with the fish still "looking" healthy, they do stop reproducing at that stage thou.

I'm not familier with piperazine only levamisole, don't know what is the active ingredent is in piperazine.

Good luck with your treatment, I hope you don't have to rip your tank apart.

[alanmin4304]

You can drop the water level in the tank while treating so there is less water to change. E.G. drop the water to half and change 90% --refilling to half.

[purplecatfish]

I'm not familier with piperazine only levamisole, don't know what is the active ingredent is in piperazine.

Piperazine is the active ingredient in some cat worming tablets that can be bought from supermarkets. It's also one of the ingredients in party pills. Dose rate is supposed to be 25mg per 10gm of flake food for five to ten days

Fenbendazole is a generic wormer, like levamisole, but it's dose rate is 200mg per 100gm of food for three days

Ivermectin is also a possible solution but there is a very narrow margin of safety.

Part of the problem is that these are theoretical and the research often turns up variation in dose rates and frequencies. Also the concentration of the medication before dosing/diluting isn't given

[sharn]

i have had a problem with camallanus before and the method Antwan mentioned above was the method i used after reading hundreds of ways to dose. the part that varied most was the length of time for dosage, from 24 hours to 3 days. i shot for the middle (48 hours) and it worked fine. by the end a few fish were starting to look a bit grumpy though so do keep an eye on them. i think the reason for the large w/c is not only to remove the worms from the substrate but the ones free swimming, because they are live bearers you will have babies floating around the tank, some sink, others dont.

if you would like i can get you some levamisole, its the most common- and apparently the most effective- med to use for treatment. i can get a 24% solution and the dosage is 1ml per 22L (i used per 20L, its a very gentle med and a bit extra wont hurt) based on the 1ml per 7.5L of 7.5% solution (i think, it was a while back i had to work it out) whic was the most common % around.

piperazine has been used effectively but it doesnt seem to work as well as levamisole from what ive read. i have use fenbendazole myself and had mixed results.

i found it pretty easy to get rid of. i did two treatments but i wouldnt hesitate to do more if it was needed. levamisole is generally fine for all cats and other sensitive fish (each individual reacts different though). i luckily had no internal infections from the wounds, i have read metrondiazole (sp) is often used afterwards to ward off infection.

i would also advise using epsom salts if you use levamisole, if the fish are unable to pass the worms they will sit in the gut and rot which is probably most unpleasent for the fish the fish that have had it the longest will have the heaviest load so keep an eye on them.

[purplecatfish]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I thought I might update you all after the first round of dosing.

I decided to transfer the two angels and the worst affected molly to another tank that had no gravel and some surplus guppies. I needed to treat this tank because the mollies had lived here for a few weeks while I found homes for the other angels who were constantly harassing them. As the guppies are expendable it was a chance to experiment with the dose rate.

I used Levicare which has 40% levamisol to make up a 2% concentration in the tank, having first done an approximately 80% waterchange. After two days the molly no longer had any worms showing and the ones showing on the angels looked like they were dying so I did another 80% water change.

I then transferred the molly to the original tank to which I added 15ml of the meds to give a concentration of 2mg/L. This means that the 1st molly is a couple of days ahead of the rest of the tank residents as far as exposure is concerned. I did as large a water change as I could (about 60%) but as the bristlenoses had spawned in the log I couldn't do more.

So far everything is going well. Everyone is happy, the last of the worms are dead on the last angel (and they are enjoying the guppy fry who aren't happy).

Just for the record the water changes were done straight from the garden hose with 40ml of Stressguard added in the 300L tank. Readings before the change were pH 7.2 KH 5deg Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, Iron, Phosphate all zero. After the change pH was 7.2, KH 3deg.

All the residents are coming out more now the Angels are elsewhere so I don't think I'll return them to the 300L tank once this is over.

[sharn]

keep in mind that young worms which havnt made it to the end of the anus may still have made it inside along with a few in the water itself.

dead worms are worms that arent moving pretty much, i remember that i thought a dead worm coming out of my rummy meant i still had the infestation :lol:

i would definatly re-do the tanks in two weeks time, it can be a persistent nematode. its awesome to hear you have managed to get the meds, levamisole is a wonder drug with these nasties

[purplecatfish]

Hi Sharn.

Yeah I'll be doing the 2nd dose just before Christmas . Thanks for the offer for the meds , I've got enough for the 2nd round I think, but probably not enough for a 3rd.

I'll let everyone know how the other two pairs of angels go on the other meds just for a comparison.

[purplecatfish]

Everything seemed to be going fine. The Molly had shed all external signs of the worms and was putting on weight . I did the second dose on the 23rd after a 60% water change (I couldn't do more because Ugly Bob the Bristlenose Dad was looking after his fry in the bogwood ).

Everything was fine this morning, but I've just got home to find her dead Oh well c'est la vie.

At least there's a bright side. I've recovered 18 bristlenose fry from the canister filter this evening Congratulations Mr and Mrs Ugly Bob.

(The fry are now in their own nursery tank because I saw one of the Blue Emperor Tetras eating one of the BN fry).

[quack]

i got meds of sharn for these worms and treated with it once and it worked amazing! didnt bother with more treatments cos im lazy and i did it about 1mount ago and havent seen any since.

the meds made the fish a little grim tho but after water changes they back to normal

thanks sharn and the meds that you got and used are the best!

[sharn]

aweome to hear it worked well! keep your eyes peeled for more though just incase, some fish seem to have more problems ridding them than others