skippy Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I don't run a Ca reactor but have been thinking lately that long term it has got to be more cost effective than adding Coral Calcium as a supplement at $50 odd a bottle! Therein lies my problem. Having never run a Ca reactor I am completely ignorant as to what is involved (ie equipment) and how the things work :oops: I understand that it involves CO2 and other stuff but don't know how it all comes together. There is quite some chat on here as to the pro's and con's of all sorts of stuff (the current thread about Red Sea plus or whatever it is called prompted me to start this thread). I have until very recently been operating a fairly low tech, low budget tank (if there is such a thing in marines ) but have spent a big chunk of $$$ on a chiller, Arcadia pendant lighting, refractometer and even more recently Tunze streams/controller (still to get from Auckland and itching to get them in my tank). Figure the next thing to consider may well be a Ca reactor and/or a RO/DO unit. Can anyone explain to me the Ca reactor set up ie what is involved equipment wise, the operation of the things and how it ties in with the rest of the tank (ie dosing, etc, etc) and also what units (manufacturers) are preferred by those using them. Also the old hoary chestnut - what are they worth (for a decent one that will last) to buy and what are the ongoing costs. I don't really want to start a huge debate about the thing (Layton, Wasp and Puttputt ) but be interested to find out more about it. Any comments about the RO/DO would be interesting too Cheers Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I don't really want to start a huge debate about the thing Wait for it......... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Any comments about the RO/DO would be interesting too should be the first piece of equipment you get for a tank. Tap/rain water is full of nutrients even at zero po4 and nitrate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Are you open to options other than calcium reactors? You obviously haven't spent money on one yet. I won't make any secrets about it. I think there are better, less expensive ways of keeping up alk and calcium. Say the word, and I'll give you a rundown of my opinions on what I personally would do. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Uh Oh! here we go! :lol: I did say wait for it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Ok, heres my 2 cents. Firstly I think the addition of a calcium reactor made a huge positive improvement to my tank. a reactor is a vessel containing Cacium carbonate material where you have a pump that circulates water through this media. Co2 from a gas bottle is very slowly added to the suction side of the pump, and mixed through the chamber. This lowers the Ph, allowing the media to dissolve. Another fitting allows imput of a tiny flow of aquarium water into the reactor which mixes with the Ca and Alk enriched water and drips back into your tank. I agree with reef (twice in one night ), an RODI it should be the first piece of equipment you buy. I wouldn't be without a reactor, Layton believes otherwise and has genuine reasons for this, but they are a very easy piece of equipment to set, once you get the knack, are not expensive to buy and a 6Kg gas bottle last for 10-12 months - mine runs 24/7 to keep up with demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Are you open to options other than calcium reactors? You obviously haven't spent money on one yet. I won't make any secrets about it. I think there are better, less expensive ways of keeping up alk and calcium. Say the word, and I'll give you a rundown of my opinions on what I personally would do. Layton im now at the point of needing to do something and would be keen to hear your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Tel, where you been. Hows the frags?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzard Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 I dont want to side track the reactor debate but can someone please tell me the difference in quality of water from different priced RO machines? Im looking at three at the moment on tm and am a little unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Tel, where you been. Hows the frags?. frags are all good, just lodged in holes at the mo and getting knocked around by crabs. i was pleased i could help you so much to empty some coral out of your overgrown tank :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 The concept of the calcuim reactor is pretty simple, you just have calcium chips in a container, add CO2 to drop the PH in the water which makes the chips break down. You need to control the amount of CO2 and the flow through the reactor to get the PH about right. You can in/decrease the CO2 and flow (drip rate) out of the reactor to adjust the Ca/Ak level in the tank. The only other thing they have is a circulation pump that moves the water inside the reactor so it flows round the chips. I have a korallin reactor they seem to be one of the better ones. From what I have seen the difference between the cheaper and better mostly comes down to ease of use, the cheaper ones are harder to seal, and go out of adjustment. There are things like effiency as well, but I don't really care if my CO2 lasts 3 months or 3.5 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Damn I must type slow, sorry for the repeat. As I understand it the extra stages on an RO/DI unit just make the expensive bits (i.e. the actual RO/DI) last longer by cleaning the water more before it gets to them. They produce different amounts of water per hour etc, but it takes hours to fill up a desent sized container anyway so who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 yep, pretty much what I just wrote suphew. I run a Aquamedic, so-called cheap unit but does a good job. Tends to clog at the exit a bit and requires flushing once a week or so. Would like to run it from a dosing pump to eliminate this in the next setup. No issues with seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 , too late, posted before I read your last post Suphew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy Posted November 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Woah - that pushed some buttons out there Ok, start from the top: Reef wrote: should be the first piece of equipment you get for a tank. and Puttputt wrote:I agree with reef (twice in one night ), an RODI it should be the first piece of equipment you buy OK, elaborate. What size/flow rate and where the hell do you get them (Reef I'm sure you can tell me an excellent supplier ). Also, my Dad (who lives with us and shares our water tanks) is a dialysis patient and would probably benefit the improved water. He uses about 1m3 each session over about 6 hours, three times a week. What sort of $$ are we looking at for that sort of flow? BTW, Northland Health tested our water and reckon it is pretty good (at least good enough for the dialysis machine) Layton wrote: Are you open to options other than calcium reactors? You obviously haven't spent money on one yet. I won't make any secrets about it. I think there are better, less expensive ways of keeping up alk and calcium. Say the word, and I'll give you a rundown of my opinions on what I personally would do. Go for it Layton. I would be interested in your opinion. Everyone else, it is his opinion - let him express it without an arguement. Layton, try and keep it in non-tech speak - you will just confuse the crap out or me if you go too scientific on me Obviouly tel is keen on what you have to say too. Puttputt. Are you saying that there is a separate pump that runs the Ca reactor. Is it a submersible or dry mounted jobbie (running out of room in my sump ) Where is it pumping from? As I understand what you are saying: - There is a suction line from the sump (or tank or whatever) supplying tank water to the reactor vessel. Just prior to the pump you dose CO2, goes thru the reactor, mixes and then drips into the tank (or sump?) How does it get there. Positive pressure from the pump or is there another pump? Does the thing come in a complete unit or do you have to cobble it together? Got any pics of yours? Hazzard wrote: can someone please tell me the difference in quality of water from different priced RO machines? I'm with you Hazzard Cheers Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 skippy, the reactors have an internal pump, part of the unit, which circulates water through the media, from top to bottom. Water from my tank is supplied in my case by a tee from the main return pump - 6mm line with a tap on it, as you only want 2-5 drips per second. All brands are neat intergrated units, no bigger than a small skimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 yep, pretty much what I just wrote suphew. I run a Aquamedic, so-called cheap unit but does a good job. Tends to clog at the exit a bit and requires flushing once a week or so. Would like to run it from a dosing pump to eliminate this in the next setup. No issues with seals. My last reactor was an aquamedic, and it did work fine as you have said, but the adjusting is painful and I found the seal round the top was a little tricky to line up (I wouldn't trust it running out of the sump), not that I ever had to really open it. I never have to touch the korallin the only time I adjust it is when I want to because my levels are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 You can get a meter to read TDS if you want (total dissoved solids). Typically the different priced units are down to 2 things, some have replacement parts and some are throw away units (cheaper short term). The other is the amount of water produced per day, typically more expensive units do more. It takes me about 3 days to fill a 210litre drum, TDS=0, 5stage RO/DI. You really should have an RO/DI unit, its hard to get it right with corals, especially SPS without one. I am pretty sure EVERYONE who has an SPS setup uses some form of RO or DI or both. Layton may not, pretty sure he uses mineral water from the tap, or used to. Everyone I know with SPS uses RO/DI. Best place to get em, EBAY. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Got a nice little TDS unit from reef central, after seeing Chimeras. Measures TDS in and out of my RoDi unit. My water (tank water) goes in at 18-22ppm, comes out 0ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazzard Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Thanks Skippy.Got a guy here in Christchurch tryin to sell me a new seachem RO unit but its fairly pricey.The three on tm are all of varying quality. What to do...what to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 You really should have an RO/DI unit, its hard to get it right with corals, especially SPS without one. I am pretty sure EVERYONE who has an SPS setup uses some form of RO or DI or both. Layton may not, pretty sure he uses mineral water from the tap, or used to. Everyone I know with SPS uses RO/DI. No I don't use RO/DI. But Christchurch is a special case really. I've never had any problems with fresh water supply. Some parts of the city occasionally have light chlorination. But if I lived anywhere else in the world, I'd absolutely be using RO/DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Layton, try and keep it in non-tech speak - you will just confuse the crap out or me if you go too scientific on me Obviouly tel is keen on what you have to say too. I'll approach it from a dollars and sense point of view ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 No I don't use RO/DI. But Christchurch is a special case really I tested TMs water with a tds meter, you will be surprised. the tds was over 80ppm. that is more than our tank water. since he got a DI he noticed a big drop in algae etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 TDS is only an indication. Doesn't necessarily relate to what we consider "bad" dissolved solid. For example, Mg, Na, Ca etc are all classed as TDS. But i've not had algae or cyano issues from using tap water here. I'm on the other side of the city from Tim, so we may have different supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 TDS is only an indication. Doesn't necessarily relate to what we consider "bad" dissolved solid. i quess in low levels but when you get a readings of over 80 it is pretty huge. Send some water to TM, i am sure he has a TDS meter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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