hannick Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 A quick search of "white spot" and "Clown Loaches" on the FNZAS Forum reveals that i am not the only one to have had major problems in removing white spot from my tank. After 3 weeks of battling, i have my first 2 casualties. (Clowns) Yes i have researched my foe and know it's life cycle intimately. Uped water temp removed carbon filter salted (1/2 dose at first) Medicated (half dose at first) Vacuumed regularly Water changes Checked water balances, ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,KH My tank was cycled. My Penguin Tetras, Guppies and Algea loaches did have it, and i have won that battle. I know where it came from. My LFS, as i noticed the white spot on one of my Clowns the next day after i had introduced them. After inspecting the tank back at the shop i found a good number of infected clowns in their tank. "Thanks a lot fellas" Question please to the highly experienced fishos out there. The books i have read have differences of opinion on whether this parasite is always present in fish tanks, or that it has to be introduced through contamination only. I known distressed fish are more susceptible. White Spot also needs a host to survive, but can it lie dormant waiting for the less than diligent Aquarist to slip up? Also the last med i used was Wunder Tonic, apart from colour my tank a trendy shade of green, it has dead set murdered my bio filter. Will the recycle take as long the second time around? More importantly i am going to be faced with a large ammonia load for a while as i had introduced my fish slowly first time around. Any suggestions please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Raise your temp slowly to above 28 degrees hold it there for a couple of days then slowly drop back to normal as the whitespot can not live about 28 degrees and this should not hurt your fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannick Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Thanks Billaney, but my temp has been 29 deg C all week. It just sped up the infestation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 It isn't the temp that kills, it just speeds up the lifecycle. When they hatch, and come in contact with the medication, that is the kill period. Must continue treatment for at least three days AFTER you think the fish are clear. Yes, watch for the spikes and do water changes with aged, and same temp water so as not to stress the fish any more. the clowns prolly died from the medication as they can not tolerate the full dosage. Sorry about the loss and hope things improve. Ulun 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannick Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Hi Alan, I am aware of the kill period you speak about thank you. White spot has been present on my Clowns for 3 weeks progressively getting worse. However other fish have recovered upto twice in that period. It is the Clowns keeping the white Spot cycle going. Meds have been in the water everyday for a week and a half. Prior to that it was every 3 days as prescribed on the bottle. I would have kept the meds going for several days after the last sighting but the oportunity has not presented it's self yet. Blue Circle, White spot cure then Wunder Tonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 If I remember correctly Wonder tonic contains methylene blue,acriflavine, malachite green and quinine. The latter two are pretty effective against white spot but I am not sure about the dose rates. I don't think your clowns will like too much malachite and they may have cut back on that because of sensitivety by some fish. I agree with the previous comment about raising the temperature. My understanding is that the temperature is raised to speed up the life cycle with white spot and velvet (which can have an encapsulated form) because it encourages the vegetative state where the parasite is susceptable to the meds, not that it will kill the parasite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannick Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Hi Alan, Yes Wunder Tonic has all of those ingredients. I was at a stage where i either beat the life cycle of the Ich or it took my fish anyway. I can honestly say that the "White Spot Cure" had absolutely no effect on curing the Clowns. I have now exasperated the situation by killing off my bio filter with the Wunder Tonic. Ich can only be killed at the free swimming Tomite stage. This is usually a period of 2 days at these temps. I think because the Clowns hide away in the caves close to where the Cysts lay during cell division, the tomites on hatching find their host too quickly before the meds can over come them. Also because Clowns have no scales they are really sitting ducks in may ways. In hind sight i think i should have moved the clowns to a hospital tank and treated them seperately. Of course still treating the main tank also. I really didn't want to stress the Clowns by moving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 In hind sight i think i should have moved the clowns to a hospital tank and treated them seperately. Of course still treating the main tank also. I really didn't want to stress the Clowns by moving them I was just going to put that up. Lot easier to treat in a BBhospital tank. Can then dose full-dose on the main tank, and dose accordingly for the other fish that don't appreciate the meds. at that strength. Ulun 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I hope you are having some success with you problem. But if your not it is my belief that white spot can be killed by temp above 30.5C, I know some one who did it in a 6ft planted tank with discus and clown loaches where med's were not practical. Of cause some of your other fish may not like it that hot. As to bio cycle, do you have another tank or know someone close that will help with transplanting bacteria and you will need to do water changes all the time, every day is best to reduce ammonia then nitrite as the bacteria comes back. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 At what stage do you vacuum the tank. Most medicines only have about an 8 hour lifespan in tank water. If you are doing water changes on say day 2 or 3 after medication, you are releasing the cysts that are buried in the gravel. The medicine is to weak to kill the cyst, the cyst reattaches to the fish. I would be removing the caves too. When in a fish store I used to cheat with white spot. At the end of the day, I would do a 30 to 50% water change{gravel vac}, dose the tank. Do the same thing next night. & again... Touch wood I haven't had it at home in years. If I ever by anything like loaches & catfish. They are quarintined for a couple of weeks with a UV Steriliser. Loaches are very prone to white spot, the stress of been shipped to a different country, moved to Wholesaler & then to shop is usually enough for them to brake out. Alan has been to where I used to work, we used to keep clowns on their own for a start, the tank always had Indian Bay leaves in there & we would use a home brew parasite remedy for a week just for extra security. I wouldn't blame your lfs for the dodgy loaches, unfortunately sometimes batches of these guys break out. Maybe better buying practises & keeping them seperate for a while would of been better.{Just a note for next time} I would still put the loaches in a seperate tank with no substract, treat at half dose. Treat main tank at full dose, see how you go. Always be careful to when raising the temp, it depletes the oxygen levels in the water, therefore make sure water is well oxygenated. & also salt is no good for scaleless fish too, it burns their skin, therefore making them even more susceptible to diseases. Good luck with the dosing & yes the tank will need to be cycled again. Keep feeds to one light feed every 2nd day, keep an eye on ammonia...do 30 to 50% water changes at least once a week at the start. Just vacuum the loose waste on the top of the substract & leave the filters as they are, if you can. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannick Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I always put the meds in after i have vacuumed and done the water change. I just realised how the meds work!!! They kill all the fish with white Spot therefore rendering your tank clear. (sad humor on a grim day) Neadless to say the last Clown died. The rest of the fish are oblivious to the ordeal and as healthy as could be. I would still love to here from someone to whether White spot is ever present in aquariums or has to be introduced. I know a collegue of mine says he had a disease free tank for 2 years, introduced no new plants or fish in that time and still got a bout of White Spot. He does however have another tank and i wondered if he unwittingly cross contamined. Thank you to everybody for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 it seems introducing new fish that already have whitespot on them normally ends up in the existing fish getting it- whether the exisiting inhabitants are stressed by their new friends or what im not sure. perhaps because the cysts are already present they are stronger? (i dunno just thinking aloud lol). i have seen many tanks that have had no new occupants and no possible contamination get whitespot for various reasons so my beleif is its always present Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 can anyone tell me what sort of price a uv steriliser is? and how exactly does it work? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljtan55 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pets-animals/Fish/Pumps-filters/auction-74865175.htm Aquarium water is pumped past the UV lamp at a low flow rate and is essentially "irradiated," controlling free-floating bacteria, algae and parasites. So its like microwaving if the water. You stick it after the filter so it doesn't kill the good bacteria, guess that means you need a HOB or external filter to use it. I think the lamp needs to be changed pretty often too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Here in Aussie you can buy little uv units with its own powerhead that fit inside a tank. I have one but don't remember the name, brand...I bought it off Brad{Freakyfish} maybe he can help. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 I built one years ago for use on cold water marines. You can buy the tubes (not cheap) and then set it up like a leiburg condenser. The clarity of the water, depth of water and rate of flow are critical. There is also an optimum operating temperature (which I think is about the same as a tropical tank) the tube needs to remain clean and they only have a limited life. But they are good if you stick to the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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