suphew Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I have been having some problems getting my levels of the above right. I wasn't too worried about because my cal reator was a bit small for my tank, and then I replaced it with a koralin so was expecting it to take a while to settle down. New reactor has been running for 1-1.5 months now. When I first put the reactor in my levels were Ca 320, KH 7, Mg 1020, it was stable at these levels for a couple of weeks (and at these levels with the old reactor) so I cranked up the bubble and output rates. I adjust both so the output remains at a PH of round 6.2 (pinpoint). Now the reactor is working a bit harder my levels are Ca 370, Kh 11.5, Mg 1020. I also run about 5-10% Mg chips in my reactor. What I want to know is how do I get them into ballance, is my Ca low because of my low Mg or the other way round? Will adjusting one correct the other? Is it possible my reactor isn't adjusted right? I can't see how it would be possible to adjust the reactor to output more calcium and not raise the KH further. And lastly rather than dosing Ca and/or Mg is there anyway to lower just the Kh? I could then just bump up the reactor output. All tests done using salifert, Ca was tested using two different test kits, PH is 8.3 pinpoint during the evening. Haven't checked salinity for a couple of weeks but its pretty stable on 1.025, all other param are 0 (No3, Po4 etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I can't see how it would be possible to adjust the reactor to output more calcium and not raise the KH further Correct. A CR doses Ca and kH in a (reasonably) balanced fashion therefore you need to increase the Ca separately by using calcium chloride. Once you have it at the right level, only then will your CR keep Ca and kH in line. When they get out of line again, then increase with manual additives. Plug your figures in the calculator then read the text about how to achieve the desired result. It's very well documented... http://reef.diesyst.com/ And lastly rather than dosing Ca and/or Mg is there anyway to lower just the Kh? Time. Wait for kH to drop to the desired level then increase Ca to what you want. THEN your CR will keep everything else in line if configured correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Yep, Chimeras right. The reactor will maintain levels of Ca, and Mg (with the Mag chips) but you need to add CaCl and MgCl to get to the desired levels in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I pretty much understand that, but I have read online that if your Mg is low it pulls your Ca down, or vie-versa so my main question really is if I correct one will the other come into line. My problem is getting the chemicals down here, the only place I have found that can do them has to order them in, will only do 25kg bags and I have talked to their supplier and they can't/wont tell me how pure etc they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I pretty much understand that, but I have read online that if your Mg is low it pulls your Ca down, or vie-versa so my main question really is if I correct one will the other come into line. My problem is getting the chemicals down here, the only place I have found that can do them has to order them in, will only do 25kg bags and I have talked to their supplier and they can't/wont tell me how pure etc they are. Or you could talk to Cracker. If you use the reef chemistry calculator here: http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html and see how much you need I could raid my stash and bring you some mg and ca if I have enough this weekend. Maybe in exchange for a small frag or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I thought that if your mag wasnt right you wouldnt be able to maintain correct cal levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yeah drifty that want I'm trying to confirm. Has anyone used epson salts to raise their Mg? If so was it easy to get, expensive etc?? According to the calculater I'm looking at 2071 grams(!) to move my Mg from 1020 to 1300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I thought that if your mag wasnt right you wouldnt be able to maintain correct cal levels Correct. Or at least you will have to keep adding Ca & Alk in big amounts to keep ahead of the precipitation. Not sure if this is recommended, but I bought a 25 kg sack of magnesium chloride for $13.00, from a farm supply store. It is not very pure, dairy farmers add it to the stock food for their milking cows as being milked sucks more magnesium out of them than is replaced in the grass they eat, hence the cheap price for it. I have at times dosed biggish amounts of it to my own tank with no apparent issues. Having said that though, as there is a high % of magnesium in seawater and a potential need to dose a good amount of it, it would probably pay to try to get it as pure as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Heh, Yeah, it takes stupid amounts of magnesium supplement to raise mg levels. I only have a bit less than a kilo left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Has anyone used epson salts to raise their Mg? If so was it easy to get, expensive etc?? According to the calculater I'm looking at 2071 grams(!) to move my Mg from 1020 to 1300 Yes, but it will raise your ionic balance in favour of sulphate ions. A correctly ionically balanced magnesium supplement can be made by using 1 part epsom salts (magnesium sulphate), to 10 parts magnesium chloride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I use both mag chloride and epsom salts in the ratio wasp recomended. Epsom salts cost $6 per 250gms so it wasnt cheap. I got a 25 kg bag of mag chloride a while ago from med chem here in auckland, cost $140 or something like that. If you can organise others who want to share with you I dont mind getting another bag and sending it to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 My problem is getting the chemicals down here, the only place I have found that can do them has to order them in, will only do 25kg bags and I have talked to their supplier and they can't/wont tell me how pure etc they are. im sure pies, ira and others in wellies would be keen on going shares on a 25kg sack! always good to have, esp. incase of emergencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 im sure pies, ira and others in wellies would be keen on going shares on a 25kg sack! always good to have, esp. incase of emergencies. YUP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 an interesting link http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/chem.htm Sounds like Mg is my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Sounds like Mg is my problem. definately. 1020 is way too low, should be 1350 or thereabouts, for reasons as wasp stated above. however even if you correct Mg, you still need to get kH and Ca in balance by dosing calcium chloride or similar first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Providing you do reasonably decent sized water changes, you should need to be worrying about Epsom salts. You can raise MG by using either epsom salts, (Magnesium sulphate), or Magnesium Chloride. The natural level of the ocean is 60-70% chloride and the rest Ca, Mg, Str etc, etc. So this means that MG Chloride is the best to add. By ensuring decent size water changes, thye build up of extra chlorides is minimal. I have heaps of SPS which have a high demand for MG and I only consume 3 cups of MG per week for 1400 litres. Its a reasonable amount, but by buying 25kg bags at $5.00 bucks a kilo its pretty darn cheap. Last me for months even with my size tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 To have one chemical reflecting the other should only happen at levels that are way off the recopmmended levels. If you have MG of say 1200 and Ca of 380, the addition of one or the other wont drag the other one. Large differences like 1100 mg or say 340 ca may effect the other and bugger up the levels. The best way to fix this is to adjust the Magnesium first by no more than 75ppm per day until at 1350. Then adjust Ca at no more than 50 ppm per day and then the KH to around 8-12, (depending on where you like it), by no more than 3 per day. This needs to be done in this order unless the KH is under 3kh, then adust this to about 7kh before you play with the MG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Once at these levels, adjust the reactor to suit. If it wont keep up, you may want to get a better one, or just stop using it and dosing chlorides and Baking soda, (Or similar) manually. This is what I do once a week for MG and Ca. and twice weekly for KH. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Got a 25kg bag of Mag cl today for $12, food grade not lab, dosed about a kg over 2-3 hours, will do test and then dose again tomorrow, then in a couple of days test my Ca and see whats happening. I also lowered the bubble rate in my reactor, my Kh was just getting too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Got a 25kg bag of Mag cl today for $12 what a huge difference in price compared to lab grade, 25kg for $140 or so last time i bought. would be interested to know the composition of the food vs lab, see what else food grade has in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Yeah would also be interested to know what else is in it, the bag says it is 98% mag cl but nothing about the other 2%, reading online they talk about the extra % being water, so I hope this is what it mostly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I seriously doubt, with it being food grade, that the other 2% is anything toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Got a 25kg bag of Mag cl today for $12. which co did it come from and do they sell anything else usefull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 which co did it come from and do they sell anything else usefull? Came from Farmlands in carterton, yep sold lots of useful stuff.... if your a farmer :lol: They can also order in foodgrade cal cl at about $30 for 25kg bag but don't normally stock it, and it depends if any of there shops have any, to get if from the supplier they have to order it by the ton, and they didn't seem that keen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 You wanna be careful with that stuff dude, Its what they use to feed cows with. Something to do with milk assistance and grass issues. Its not very pure at all. Watch for algae and diatoms... If you get some stop dosing. If you want some pure stuff, we can send to you or I think Ira has organised it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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