Sump design help plse

[tee-em]

Hi setting up new 540l display marine/reef.

Your thoughts on the below options please.

Cabinet is challenging as the load bearing "walls" split the usable space into 3. Skimmer to be lifted to correct water height. Not sure on physical filter media yet, maybe sock on inlet then bioballs .

Option 1: two sumps joined with two 32mm bulkheads drilled through. Approx volume of sump 2 x 32l = 64l

Option 2: three sumps joined with approx volume of 3 x 32 = 96l

Lining up and joining sumps tricky... imagine it would be painful to pull one out and then realign. Sides increased to 10mm maybe 8mm will do?

Option3: Redesign cabinet to support one larger single sump.

I am leaning towards option 2, your thoughts and comments would be appreciated.

Chrs

[jetskisteve]

bioballs????

[tee-em]

Back left incoming weir from overflow.

Mechanical filtration, sock sponges etc... then in the rest of the first sump chamber Protein skimmer and biological filtration media... bio balls or live rock. Second sump is fuge, third is fuge and return.

[jetskisteve]

reefs dont use sponge, filter wool, bioballs anymore, pretty much anyway, just live rock & the best skimmer u can afford

[JDM]

one big sump wins my vote, redesign your cabnet (metal frame?) so it will fit.

that is the first thing i will change from my current set up when i upgrade, bigger is better, more useable space.

[tee-em]

Chrs

lots of live rock then.. anyone tried the miracle mud?

Will take a closer look at cabinet, as you say I do loose a lot on space for joining etc.

chrs

[jetskisteve]

ha ha ha nearly fell off my chair, funny u should ask about MM it was supposed to be the bees knees but died a murky death snake oil i hear

[Drifty]

depends what u want to keep. MM works fine in my tank, I will be keeping it

[jetskisteve]

He He thought of you when i posted that Drifty

[Drifty]

[evilknieval69]

Hi

Just wondering what program you did those drawings on?? they look wicked

[cracker]

Tee Em. Dont get caught up in all the apparatus until you have seen and know how the best systems work.

That sump design is not needed for a reef tank.

Keep it simple.

[lduncan]

I agree, keep it simple as possible. Both in terms of equipment, and methodologies.

A simple glass box is more than sufficient for a sump. No need for baffles at all, so long as your overflow design is right (don't use a durso), you won't get micro bubbles.

[Jettin]

Yeah it looks complicated :-?

Btw, what program did you do the renders with? sketchup?

[suphew]

so long as your overflow design is right (don't use a durso), you won't get micro bubbles.

Just invest in a good mop instead :bounce:

[lduncan]

5 or 6 years without the need for a mop here.

Layton

[KP]

I agree simplicity is the key, but it is alot more fun designing a more complicated system :lol: :lol:

IMO, the main source of bubbles is obviously your skimmer, so keep the greatest distance between your skimmer ouput and the return pump. Baffles should have wide spacing ( >50mm ) to reduce the flow which gives the bubbles more time to reach the surface.

A few things to think about are:

With baffles the volume of water your return pump is sitting in limits the water level in the display. eg you return blocks and the return drains the sump compartment and burns out your pump, not the best idea but at least you don't get an overflow.

If you don't have an effective way in which to direct the overflow water into the skimmer you end up with a decent layer of deteris in calm spots, although this can be vacuumed out its a PITA.

Good luck

[reef]

anyone tried the miracle mud

Some people are having great success with MM. Hollywood fish farm Albany selling tank has had it for some time and the coral look great. I don’t think they even run a skimmer.

Hollywood’s new show tank will also run MM .

Have tried it and have some success however found I need to have a far bigger sump to handle the load of my tank as it is one of the heaviest stock tank with too many fish and corals.

Currently running MM in a small container so that I can get the benefits of the iron and minerals.

People who fall of there chairs seem to have average reef tanks anyway so are not really up to play with filter systems. They say the proof is in the pudding

[chimera]

As everyone else has said, keep it simple. that is way too complex and connecting sumps like that is more room for error. remember matching pipe size is important too - both from and to the skimmer as well as size for return pipes etc. on the downflow go with 40mm pipe, purely because it's cheapest and can be easily reduced to match the size of the skimmer inlet or anything else you plumb up to it (plus allows for upgrades later without changing most of the plumbing )

baffles are the key to reducing micro bubbles. however you will still get them if you dont design the baffles right. they can be effectively reduced by simply keeping the water level in the return section as high as possible (in relation to the height of the last baffle). they should be about 2" apart (also because this is the easiest when siliconing them!!!)

Micro bubbles only occur after the baffles because water dropping off the last baffle creates some turbulence when hitting the surface of the water. if you keep the (normal) running water level in the last section so that the water only drops off the baffle an inch at most (water level will drop a bit during the day because of evaporation too) then this will reduce the bubbles alot. also make sure that the baffle height (in relation to the sump height) is low enough to compensate for any back flow from the return pump. Work out the surface area of the display tank and multiply by the water surface down to the top (plus a bit) of the return outlet. whatever that volume is is what you will need to have in the unused area of the sump (from the top of the shortest baffle to the top of the sump multiplied by the surface area of the sump)

Easy peasy!

[wasp]

Most plumbing is a mystery to me, but keeping it simple is good advice, however nothing wrong with well thought out more complex sumps either. KP recently designed a very good one, you could drop him a pm to ask further info on it. Chimera is also a bit of a sumpmeister!

There was a big argument about Durso pipes a while back, with some very strong views on the subject. Before taking the advice not to use one, just be aware that they are the most popular device in use for their particular job, although there are alternatives. Sometimes people can be enthusiastic and state their opinion like it is fact.

If having a fuge, the most common arrangement is to have the skimmer after the fuge. However this does depend what the fuge is for, macro algae, pods, or whatever. So if it was to breed pods and deliver them to the tank as an extra food source, then obviously you would have the skimmer before it.

Only other opinions I've got is that liverock should be used, not bioballs or filter socks, although there could be reasons to use bioballs or filter socks, but generally better without.

[chimera]

Sometimes people can be enthusiastic and state their opinion like it is fact.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If having a fuge, the most common arrangement is to have the skimmer after the fuge. However this does depend what the fuge is for, macro algae, pods, or whatever. So if it was to breed pods and deliver them to the tank as an extra food source, then obviously you would have the skimmer before it

There is also another way - which is how I did it Have them run in parallel. In other words water comes down, first gets T'd off to the skimmer. The skimmer outlet dumps water into the sump. What the skimmer doesnt need (because flow is great enough that the skimmer doesn't utilise all of it) continues down the pipe to the fuge. The fuge outlet also dumps water into the sump. (I actually have another T which goes to the chiller also then dumps water into the sump) The sump has 3 x baffles / 2 sections. The first section of course gets the water from the skimmer, fuge and chiller. Water flows through the baffles to reduce microbubbles, the return section has an Iwaki pump that delivers water back to the display tank. I find this quite effective as I can also (once I plumb it up ) isolate the fuge from the main tank if needed (good incase of emergencies!)

[wasp]

Good thinking that parallel idea is very clever. Like I said, you are definately a sumpmeister!

[lduncan]

Sometimes people can be enthusiastic and state their opinion like it is fact.

... and some people have trouble differentiating fact from opinion. :-)

Durso intentionally introduces air into the overflow --> more air bubbles in the sump

Full siphon systems, require no air in the overflow --> no overflow introduced air bubbles in the sump.

Common sense really.

[wasp]

Oh dear. Thought this was done and dusted months ago :roll:

I apologise Layton, I now realise that all your opinions are facts :lol: .

Anyhow, now you've got that off your chest, I trust you'll feel better.

Back to sumps.....

[chimera]

and some people have trouble differentiating fact from opinion.

Durso intentionally introduces air into the overflow --> more air bubbles in the sump

Full siphon systems, require no air in the overflow --> no overflow introduced air bubbles in the sump.

Common sense really.

air is good, oxygenates your water. baffles are simple to make.

common sense really.