JoeBlog

You also have to remember salaries over there. It isn't a direct comparison of US to NZ dollar, e.g. I would be earning over twice what I do here if I lived in Los Angeles (direct comparison, i.e. without exchange rate or in real purchasing power terms either)!! So, yes from at least my prospective it is pretty cheap if you live in CA (or anywhere in the US for that matter). Not exactly cheap if you wanted to bring it over here at those prices. I recently paid $140 each for a couple brown stags!

Have you looked on the floor around your tank? Unfortunately, that's where I found mine. Didn't he/she munch on your SPS? Mine did and I was just getting ready to give him to a fellow reefer when I found him on the floor.

I'd buy that in a second for $90.

Yeah, I made a template for his buddy to make some for both of us, but after he made the first one and realized how much of a PITA it is to do all those spot welds, etc... he decided that two was enough (understandably since they are so well made)! You can probably stand on them without causing any damage!! I'm sure that Tim's mate could probably be convinced to do it for the right price, but the original price before he realized how time consuming it is to work with SS was over twice as much as if I made it myself out of aluminum and rivets. If I had my choice, I would certainly want ones like Tim's that are professionally done, but the guy's not going to give me mate's rates and I don't think that the additional cost that I would have to pay is worth it. Just as anything in this world, it's all about who you know and I don't know him!

You can make them yourself. The dimensions are from a DIY thread on RC (supposedly the same as actual Luminarcs), and you can easily make them yourself from polished aluminum (TM's are out of stainless steel). I think the thread was actually pulled from RC due to Copyright issues, but not sure. If you are interested and can't find the thread via the RC search function, let me know. I made a PDF copy. I made mine for $25 each including rivets and aluminum (not my time, of course). If you are interested Layton, I have the cardboard templates that were used to make mine and TMs, which should make it even easier for you. Cheers, Steve

I guess I am one of the strange breed that actually thinks that Starboard BB looks good. I love the bright white bottom (as in TM's tank), not only for appearance, but also as function since it increases the amount of light to the corals. I really, really want some sea urchins to eat the coraline algae so that it will stay nice and clean without routine scrapping. Those new stream style pumps look pretty sweet!! When are you going to have some available Reef????

Sorry, I forgot that yours is 3-side viewable, so Chimera's suggestion isn't much use for your setup. My tank is going to be plywood, which already has a bit of hidden area on each side for it to be structurally sound. So it will be easy for me to hide all my equipment. With 3 sides to peer in from, your situation is going to be a bit more challenging. I do agree with Pies in that the streams can be a bit obtrusive and ugly. I have 4 6100’s in my 5 footer and they can stick out like a sore thumb. I had to rearrange my corals a bit when I added them due to the shadow that they created as well. Saying all that though, the locline coming out of the back of my tank for the 4-way closed loop isn’t the most aesthetically pleasing as well. On my new tank, I will be putting a lot more thought into appearance and not only function. Good luck with your new setup and I looking forward to seeing it all come together!

I think that Chimera had an excellent idea in some previous thread (which I am going to use on my new tank, so thanks!!) to address this. He suggested to leave 6 or more inches on each side not viewable, so that you won't see whatever you are using for water movement, e.g. streams/seios, eductors/penductors, seaswirls, etc… Another nice benefit is that it really adds the appearance of depth since you can’t really see the sides. The tanks at Redwoods are somewhat like this and I really like the look.

Is there a public place where is it appropriate to make negative, judgmental statements? This is not encouraging behavior for the newbies or the experienced. This is a hobby and from what I gather, the point of the forum is to share experiences so that we can all learn from each other, i.e. make each others tanks better. Ridicule and put downs like this are what attribute to holding this forum down. It is perfectly fine to debate topics, but there is no need for opinionated antics. I assume that you are an educated man and it would be nice to see more posts that reflect this. It is really irrelevant what his tank looks like. I don't think Layton even plans on having a BB when it is all said and done. I believe he is going to follow the Steve Weast (sp?) method of SSB with regular vacuuming and sand replacement. He simply has done quite a bit of research on the topic and understands the differences between substrate methods. As far as pictures, why would you want to see a tank full of cooking rock and not so flash corals from the shedding nutrients? Once it is all done, I can't wait to see it myself since he has some quite nice corals in there and I'm sure it's going to be amazing once the enviroment is right. At any rate, the point is that I don't see the need for the negative comments. We can all benefit from your experiences and "constructive" criticism. Enough said on this publicly. If you (Pies) want to respond to any of my comments directed at you, please PM me so that this thread can get back on topic.

Bomber has posted more scientific papers that I think anyone would ever care to read. For a very good list of these: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5754779#post5754779

Pies, it seems as though you are totally missing the point (once again). No one said that an SPS tank with sand can't be absolutely amazing. The point is that typically at some point in time IN THE FUTURE (estimated by some at the 5+ year mark, of course depending on how the tank is maintained) when the sandbed becomes saturated with nutrients, some problems will start to occur since it must release these back into the water (given that you are not doing the husbandry to remove these nutrients and you said yourself that you NEVER touch your sandbed). A typical sign that a tank is starting to head towards that downward spiral is when nuisance aglae raise their ugly head (feeding off the phosphates). In some of the pictures of your tank that you have posted, there are bits of this algae noticable. This is what I believe Layton was referring to before. Now don't take offense because it is not a perfect correlation, but possibly (hopefully not) a sign of things to come. I think that everyone agrees that you have a nice tank. So, there is no need for all this "my coral is sweeter than yours" comments. All I can say is that I hope the theory is wrong for your sake since I would hate to see such a nice tank fade to average with STN and the rest. I don't want to speak for Layton, but I just want to say that it's not a fair comparison for the color vs. color test at the moment. His tank is in transition while he is cooking the rock in tank. He and I haven't talked about this before, but I think he could possibly use more flow as well if he intends to continue on with this method. What you are asking for is like saying, "Chimera, bring your damn corals over to my house and compare colors since you just started that Zeovit stuff. Everyone says that it is amazing, so show me the pudding (or whatever the phrase is)." It takes times to work. I saw pictures of your tank when it younger and it certainly doesn't look anything like what you have today. Well, I think there may be some people that would say the same about your aquascape, but aren't crude enough to say it in a public forum. To each their own. I presume you don't design your tank for anyone but yourself, and I am sure the same applies to Bomber.

No dig at you directly Wasp since this seems to be the trend by quite a few people on this forum, but I find these sort of challenges a bit odd. Why is it that people always have to "prove" everything. Why would he lie about how many fish he has? I have been challenged by other people about some things that I've said about my system in the past, e.g. How could I possibly have over 100 times turn over, etc... I understand the whole challenge of a theory so that we can dig deeper and have a better understanding, but challenges of observations are implications that people are lying. Has there been a history on this forum prior to my joining that has led to this sort of doubtful mentality?

Nothing in the tank?!?!?!? Did you not see Bomber's (incomplete) list of fish provided by Layton on the previous page? He lists over 20 fish, not including the two different "flocks" and two different "schools". Granted they are all not really considered "large" fish, but it is certainly not "nothing". That's a lot of fish and he feeds heavily. It's the methodology that "allows" him keeps it as clean or as dirty as he chooses. I really don't see why people have such a hard time accepting this.

I had my tank in the conservatory for quite a while. Anthony Calfo raves about natural sunlight and thus why I originally put it out there. I didn't notice any real benefit compared to the MHs that I am running now. However, I really didn't have my setup optimized for sun exposure since I had this huge canopy housing these awful floros that I was using at the time as well. I would certainly do it again if I could have some means of controlling the major temperature swings. I was talking to a local reefer in ChCh recently and he is thinking of using some really sweet sky lights for the majority of his lighting. Depending how things go for him, I may go this route as well. It would be GREAT to reduce my damn power bill!!

Yeah, I thought it was starboard for a minute!

I love the milleporas!! Very nice little frag. Is that bubble algae just below? I have that as well and I've found that it's a real PITA to get rid of. Do you have any successful strategies?

No worries at all Cracker. It’s great to have differences of opinion and utilize different methodologies. This would be a pretty damn boring forum if we all did things the same. Besides, I certainly don’t have a PhD in Marine Biology or Marine whatever, so I’m learning from all other’s experiences as well.

First of all, comments like this are not only unnecessary, but also unproductive in a public forum. I hope that you can express yourself in a more civil, educated manner so that everyone can benefit from this discussion. When I said replacement, I was mainly refering to taking out all the nutrients that have accumulated in the sand. I don't know for sure, but I would assume that the sand could be cleaned just as the rocks can be cooked to remove this buildup. At any rate, that would be a real PITA that I would hate to have to do on some sort of regular basis. You only have to cook your rocks once. I am not the expert, but I believe that I've read some posts by Bomber (Dr. Marine Biology/Dr. Marine Pathobiology) and SeanT (Marine Phrenologist. Ph.D.) on RC (in one of the posts that I provided earlier) in which they have both refuted this argument. From my own experiences with BB, I would have to say that I doubt stirring has any major effect as well since I can see exactly how much detritus builds up on the bottom of the tank, and it is A LOT!!! Since I am keeping SPS, I certainly don't want any of that stuff in my tank.

It certainly does depend on skill, but also the maintenance required (willing to do). If you have no problem removing portions of your sandbed every X number of years to avoid the crash, then great!! (Even better if you have that magic ball to tell you what that optimal replacement time is!! 8) ) Given that, you can certainly have a beautiful tank with any level of sand. Mind you, the shallower the sand bed, the more routine maintenance is required. It is also a misconception that any idiot can take their sand out and run a successful barebottom tank.

Maybe if you didn’t have all that “innocuous†dirt in there, then you wouldn’t have to waste all that good vodka on your tank and throw a party instead!

No need to cover your bottom with anything (unless you want Starboard for protection) since it gets quickly covered with coralline anyway. 8)

BB is by no means the only way to have a beautiful successful tank. There are HEAPS of great SPS tanks out there with sand in them. Just take a look at previous TOTMs on RC!! There is just the worry that the nutrient buildup over time will ruin it all. Who knows when it will happen, possibly 5 or 10 or 15 or ...years depending upon your husbandry, but it will most likely happen. Even worse, it comes with very little to no warning! With more nutrient tolerant corals, it isn't that big of a deal, but I don't want to take the chance with my SPS.

BB refers to Bare Bottom, i.e. no sand. It allows you to be "behind the wheel" since you know exactly the state of your tank, i.e. nutrient buildup, at all times. Simply look and see how much detritus is on the bottom of your tank. If your water flow is set up correctly, it should accumulate in an given area and thus very easy to vacuum out. You decide how clean or dirty you want your tank to be. I have an SPS dominant tank and love bare bottom. Many people here hate BB because they think it is ugly. Personally, I don't notice it at all since I am too busy looking at the sweet corals! This is by no means a statement saying that it can't be done with other methodologies, which is usually the conclusion that "sand bed" people jump to when they see posts of this nature. You just don't have the ticking time bomb that has been well documented with DSB or unmaintained SSB. I really don't want to start a debate about this whole topic again here as it has been done very thoroughly on Reef Central in the threads below. If you do a search for barebottom on RC, over 21 pages of threads will come up for you to check out. Here are a couple of the most popular and most informative: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=650985&goto=newpost http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=644382&highlight=barebottom http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=223301&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 Cheers, Steve

I currently have a school of 11 chromis and they are pretty nice. I hope that they don’t slowly windle their numbers down.

Is that a chalk bass? If so, how many did buy?