lduncan

Yes, you pointed it out, but according to the instructions I got from several sources, including http://www.korallen-zucht.de, that is the way it is used. The way Brendon uses it is different, and the way G Alexander uses it is different again! vodka? Never used it. I used sugar, and had good results with it. But if this amino acid mixture can produce similar results while feeding corals, all the better. Draino (sodium hydroxide) is no more harmful to your tank than dosing kalk. It's only used to kill aiptasia, and haven't used to for several months, cause I have none left to kill. Acids... this is a very broad category. Hydroflouric acid is a bit different to amino acids... really. BTW Zeovit contains acid as well. This is the one thing that they do tell you. Eco Aqualiser is rubbish has no valid logical reason behind it. It's like a biomag for your tank... nothing but the placebo effect here! Its crap like this that will get the response it deserves from me. Two complete lies in a row. Brendon might gain some more credibility with me by posting information which will help people with general reef related question rather than get all defensive over a product which he is trying promote. Again, I believe parts of the zeovit system work. But as a complete system, there are components which are nothing but snake oils. Layton

This method of dosing aspartic acid is more about feeding corals rather than lowering nutrients. An added side effect of it is that it may boost certain benificial bacteria, resulting in a lowering of nutrients. Layton

What is in his tank? Low fish load could account for this. This is the thing which annoys me a bit about Brendon posting on this forum. He only appears when zeovit is mentioned. There could be a multitude of other reasons why his corals look good. According to whose instructions? The creators? Brendons? G Alexander's? There is no doubt about this. I know it works, but which particular part makes it work? I doubt that the zeolite and zeobak contribute at all. The zeolite? Don't think so. Zeolite is nothing more than a surface. Like rock has more biologically available surface area than zeolites for the same volume. The largest of the three zeolites tested from the zeovit system had a 4 angstrom pore size. The smallest bacteria are around 200nm in size, that is three orders of magnitude larger than the largest pore size of zeolites! There is no bacteria hosted within the zeolite! Zeloite as a ion exchange filter in binding nitrate and phosphate is also not true. The high levels of Sodium ions, effectively renders what is a useful freshwater chemical filter useless in saltwater. Zeobak, i have asked several people in the know about this, Eric Borneman states that no one has been able to pin down the species of bacteria which is responsible for reducing nitrate in marine aquariums. If zeovit have found the answer, i think it is rather irresponsible not to share it with the scientific community. From the research papers I have read, the zeovit system achieves results similar to those of dosing amino acids, so much so that I think that they are essentially one in the same. My aim is not to promote a product (unlike Brendon) i have no commercial interest in salifert at all. Hell, i wouldn't even be using the salifert product if I didn't know that it contained 40% aspartic acid. My aim is to share information which may help other hobbyists better their tanks. Layton

Because you have no response? :roll:

Ahh, interesting to see who crawls out of the wood work when you mention zeovit. How about sticking around a bit on these forums Brendan and posting something unrelated to zeovit for a change. What do you mean by keep changing my tank around? What have I changed? The only thing i recall was dropping my alk to about 7 a couple of weeks before starting zeovit because high alk was apparently known to cause RTN when using zeovit! No one else who uses zeovit seems to have the same problems you have? ... I seem to remeber Pies also had some problems initially. I'm not saying it's related to using zeovit, but it could possibly be. The main problem I have with zeovit is that no one knows how it works, or the creator, if indeed he does know how it works, is unwilling to inform hobbyists of this information. You could argue that he would be giving away his secrets if he told everone how it worked, but the fact is, is that if another company wanted to copy this product, it would not be particularly difficult to get each component of the system chemicallly / biologically analysed to determine it's constituants. I believe that the zeolite addes nothing to the system. The same could be acieved by similar sized live rock in a reansonable flow environment.. perhaps even work better. Zeofood, I believe is a mixture of amino acids, similar to what I am using, in the form of the salifert product. This I think is the key part to the system, i have read a few proper scientific research papers to support the theory that particular anino acids aids growth and possible colouration. Zeobak... well it may or may not aleady exist in the tank, who knows? No one knows what bacteria it is! Amino acids can be used directly by some bacteria. So zeobak may not help either. Zeostart, wouldn't have the slightest clue as to what is in this, may be just another cocktail of amino acids, maybe some acetate's which would explain the vinigar like smell. All in all, at the sart of using just an amino acid addative which has reasonably sound research behind it, and it's creator is willing to share information on it's major components, i have had similar effects as those reported by many people who use zeovit. Personally after seeing the effects of this product on my tank, I'm inclined to think that the only real active ingredient in the zeovit system is the Zeofood, which is nothing more than a mixture of amino acids! What would you trust, a product which you know what is in it which has sound scientific research behind it, or a overly hyped system, which no one really knows how it works or what it actually is.

Yeah, i know, but just thought i'd let everyone know of the initial changes. Layton

I know what your thinking Steve, and no... it wasn't purchased from Auckland. And i was considering purchasing plain old aspartic acid, but it's not cheap, and a bit of research on reefcentral on aspartic acid, came up with a couple of threads on this product, in which habib explained what research when into the creation of the product. Much more scientific and professional than Zeovit and the like. Layton

Well, after no bites on the "well lets see some real reef tanks" thread. Here is a bit of background to the new mystery addative i'm using. It all came about from two separate articles i read. The first by Randy Holmes Farley, which was about the details of the calcification process. In it he mentions the role of organics in the process, he goes on to say that amino acids "may bind to the aragonite crystal face (skeleton), and thereby inhibit binding of magnesium, phosphate, or other ions that are known to inhibit the growth of calcium carbonate crystals." He goes on to say... "Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, not by either the coral itself or the zooxanthellae. For this reason, it might be interesting to see what added aspartic acid does to calcification rates in reef tanks." The second article was about feeding corals, in particular phyoplankton, and zooplankton. It basically listed that amino acids are the primary nutrient used by corals from these types of food. I also remember reading that particular bacteria are capable of using amino acids directly. Now, i have been dosing Saliferts Coralline Amino Acids for the past week, 5 mL per day. Habib on reefcentral has stated that the product contains 40% aspartic acid, with a mixture of other amino acids. So far the results have been similar to those experienced when starting to use Zeovit. The water has become noticably clearer, and polyp extension is much greater. Unlike zeovit however, i have had no increase in hair algae, nor any recession at the base of any of my acros. It will be interesting to see how this develops. Layton

It won't even fit inside, my roof it 200mm too low for it! Layton

I'm also removing some fish, managed to trap two anthias today. If anyones after the following fish let me know: Lyretail Anthias x 5 Brown Tang (scopas), very nice colouration with green/white spots. Blue and Gold striped damsels x 5 maybe a few others as well. I'm also testing a mistery additive over the next few months after some intensive research on coral calcification. It promises to increase growth rates of coral, and will hopefully improve colouration. (No, it's NOT zeovit ) Layton

a solid pair of bolt cutters should do it One of those little electric rotary drill saws is the best for thick skelaton stuff like hammers and torches. Layton

Nice tank chimera, I wish i had an in wall! Layton

sounds like aiptasia. I have used a solution of sodium hydroxide (draino) to rid them from my tank. Just inject it into them, and you'll never see them again. People also use kalk paste, but it doesn't work nearly as well as sodium hydroxide. Layton

fun

Ha Ha Ha... sorry i shouldn't laugh. Hopefully it wasn't a big RAID 0 array? Layton

I'd have to disagree here. Livestock prices in general i would say are around 1.5 times what they are in the US, and there are very good reasons for this. 1) MAF 2) MUCH lower volume It's not as bad as some people make out. Layton

Nice acros! Where do you get your corals from? Are they allowed to collect off the Barrier Reef? I thought that coral imports into Australia were banned? Layton

Some tanks look better without heaps of fish. Nice tank. Layton

It's hardly an unbiased analysis. I use red sea salt, and apart from being a little low in Mg for my liking I am happy with it. Beats trundling off to the beach to collect NSW! Layton

what about adding a pair of cleaner shrimp, they produce lots of larvae quite regularly. Maybe too big? The snail must also help, i imagine they must spawn quite regularly? Layton

Very interesting, i'm thinking of removing some fish from my tank at the moment. Layton

No, i had a couple of acro's start receding at the base. So I stopped, and it stopped. I made sure my alk had dropped between 7-8 before starting using it as well, as this was know to cause proplems. So i don't know. Will be interested to see how it goes in your new tank. Layton

Thats probably typical of a lot of saltmixes. The fact is that they work, and for some people work very well. Layton

Is anyone still using Zeovit? Pies, do you have any recent pics of your tank? I've been reading some stuff on RC about it recently, some of the guys there are quite impressed by it. Layton

The fun comes when you have a surprise fish attack which makes you flinch and burn your arm on the halides! Talk about painfull. Everytime it happens I think next I put my arm in the tank I'm gonna turn off the halides. But for the quick fixes you have to make on the spot you just forget. I don't know how many times this has happen to me. :oops: Layton