juscrooky

some info on co2 cylinder failures investigated in the uk by the uk health and safety executives pay particular attention to the bits where is shows pictures of holes being blown through block walls and the fact water ingress can cause a brand new co2 cylinder failure in less than 3 months this is on a 5 year test cylinder !!! http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/hid/din/538.pdf I just want you to Appreciate that a reputable company such as BOC , or air products or airgas or Air Liquide etc do things PROPERLY and to the BOOK, and charge the prices they do for a reason, I resent any one making accusations of a legitimate, safe company being "rip off merchants - extortion rackets, con artisits etc - without knowing all the facts - WAKE UP a sizable chunk of these companies turnover generally goes back into research and development, to develop new technologies, to move industry and the world forward, making a safer and better world for us all and our children, including development and investment of hydrogen fuel cells, co2 reclamation for powerplants to protect the planet form increase in greenhouse effects. any profits made by smaller cheaper companies goes into their back pockets to buy a flash car or big house, what benefit are they doing the world ?? If we ALL used cheap suppliers where would the new technology and developments come from with no funding, we would end up back in the dark ages. cheap suppliers MAY or MAY NOT use cheap imported parts or may not be able to afroed to carry out all the correct procedures ?? , IT IS UP TO YOU TO FIND OUT !! if you do not it may be at your peril to quote the HSE Now landlords may buy their beer from anyone and their gas from whoever offers the best deal in the area. This had led to the introduction of a large number of independent gas filling companies competing for business, and has resulted in a significantlowering of the cost of dispensing gases. Unfortunately, it has also resulted in a reduced level of control exercised over the gas cylinders. may I draw your attention to the part of the report where it discusses that a cheap immitation valve was discovered from china that had been developed from just a picture alone, the bursting disc was manufactured incorrectly and didnt operate to relieve the cylinder pressure and the cylinder failed. IF the valve was the proper one, this wouldnt have happened. IT COULD HAVE TAKEN A LIFE. I am asking you all to check you have the RIGHT equipment from a reputable supplier to keep you all safe, THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY !! If you can find a cheaper supplier THAT CAN MATCH ALL THE SAFEGUARDS AND QUALITY ASSURANCE AND SERVICE LIKE FOR LIKE - GO FOR IT- BRILLIANT - however the reality is very few if any can 100% match these market leaders, and they ARE market leaders for a reason. Many smaller suppliers are cheaper for a reason, have you ever asked yourself WHY ?? most are obviously genuine and will generally trade within the law and meet minimum requirements, however products may not always to the same high quality standards as the larger companies, hence the cheaper prices However some may be illegal or illicit suppliers who just want your money and dont care of the cost to the end user to get it, they know people cant resist a bargain - is it worth your life for a few bucks - do they care if you get maimed or killed ?? probably not would you fly on a plane that hadnt been approved by safety regulations, hadnt had its maintenance checks, just because it was cheaper ???

yep sure am, I have had 3 now, I have had BMW's for the past 8 years now, I had a 1988 318i , a 730I, and now another 1987 730sei running on LPG absolutely brilliant motor, 21 years old, pristine condition, rust free, purrs like a kitten , dont think I will ever have anything else, will never have a new one, only the older ones, built like brick shithouses, tough and reliable

It would help if you knew what you where talking about !! Firstly, an LPG cylinder is only designed to take a max of 20Bar, hence why the cylinders are manufactured from thin guage mild steel. and not thick wall strong cylinders like CO2 that have to stand in excess of 60 bar you dont have the problem of carbonic acid build up and erosion in an LPG cylinder, a CO2 cylinder can look perfect from the outside, but be destroyed from the inside by acid ersion. LPG is tainted with a strong man made aroma so you know if it is leaking, however CO2 ISNT, it is odourless colourless and tasteless. CO2, though non flammable, in a leaking cylinder is just as deadly if more so than LPG - the proerties of CO2 are not dissimilar to CO (carbon Monoxide AKA - THE SILENT KILLER) CO2 is an ASPHYIXIANT - High concentrations can cause paralysis of the breathing control centers of the nervous system: 2% by volume in the atmosphere will cause a 50% increase in the breathing rate; 3%, a 100% rate increase; >4% produces labored breathing and is dangerous for even a few minutes of exposure, with dizzyness, nausea and headaches; >12% causes rapid unconsciousness; and if this concentration level continues will result in death within a few breaths. can your cheaper supplier advise and assist you on all aspects of use of co2 in confined spaces and the regulations and laws surrounding it ?? as for price, what quality do you get for your money, I have learnt that price isnt everything, after several online purchases for "cheap" goods from china, only to find they arent worth the materials they are made out of. and had to buy genuine quality goods, then costing me extra money. two words - FALSE ECONOMY did you know there are several grades of purity of CO2, from the lower end, usually used in fire extinguishers to pure foodgrade, what grade are you getting?? is it right for purpose?? could you get contamination in your Co2 supply?? how accurate and up to date is the fillers equipment?, ARE you getting a full cylinder at refill ? how do YOU know?? is the refiller accreditted for quality ? what backup service, would you get if you had a problem what of refunds or guarantees do you have if you recieved a faulty product? could you get help and advice 24hrs a day if you had an "incident" ? these may seem like silly questions, but you are not only paying for the product itself, but a full service, would you buy a new car, with no guarantees , warranty or quality assurance and no safety/crash testing from the manufacturer if it was a bit cheaper ?? probably not, I know I wouldnt it is surprising that even here in the UK, I still hear of people filling, for example beverage gas cylinder (for beer) with fire extinguisher grade CO2 !!! not food grade cos it saves a few bucks you need to compare the wider picture, not just the price of the gas itself. if your supplier can compare in ALL ASPECTS, and at a cheaper rate, fair enough go for it, what I have found is that cheaper companies are cheaper for a reason, to make it cheaper you have to loose something, in the case of packaged gases, in most cases they cant cheapen the actual product, so they tend to leave out on quality and service aspects instead to save money. I AM only trying to help you all make an informed choice, with all the facts. people assume co2 is the same from anywhere - it isnt ther is a reason why, some cars are a damn sight more expensive than others - why is a BMW more expensive than a cheaper korean import? its all down to quality, the BMW is more expensive, but will serve you better in the long run as it will last a lot longer, with fewer repairs needed, is better build quality and safer for you and your family should the worst happen.

Greetings from the UK Stumbled accross this post by accident I do not think that BOC cylinder rental is not an extortion racket, the rental charge covers the testing and upkeep of the gas cylinder after some research I have found out the foillowing info which may be useful to you You may (or may not ) appreciate that a CO2 cylinder is is 50 bar (725PSI) bearing in mind that the average car tyre is 30PSI and wagons up to 100psi and you have seen the damage they can do when they go bang. there was an incident with a bank of argon cylinders recently in the uk, one had a valve rupture which set the cylinder off like a missile and killed one person, maimed several and destroyed three storeys of a building. (do a google search for cylinder incident welwyn garden city uk) a guy in a breakers yard in the uk was removing a valve from a stolen BOC cylinder to weigh it in for scrap, the valve ejected itself with such force it went clean through his body killing him instantly this company selling you the cylinders may be breaking the law, or putting you in a position where you may be breaking the law and safety laws, In UK The cylinders HAVE to be tested Min every 5 years by law, which involves a strip down of the cylinder , new valve, internal camera inspection, Xrays and hydraulic pressure testing of min 3 times their rated pressure. BOC in the uk scraps over 4000 cylinders per year which are deemed not safe for use. by you yourself purchasing the cylinder - you are now responsible for this testing, you may be prosecuted for an untested cylinder, or worse still be using an unsafe cylinder if it is not A1 condition. if you own the cylinder YOU will have to PAY to have it retested and replace if it fails the test, HOW MUCH WILL THAT COST YOU!!!! - probably more than you pay for in rental to BOC BOC fits a additional pressure relief valve to the cylinder as standard (at extra cost) and has a one way valve installed (at extra cost) why a one way valve ??, well this is particularly relevant to you guys. A backflow of water into the cylinder, which is quite common when the cylinder is near empty, where it can and will cause a chemical reaction, the result of which created carbonic acid, though a mild acid, if left unchecked will adhere itself the the steel inside of the cylinder and eat it away until it causes the wall of the cylinder to weaken to a point where it can rupture, you will NEVER know this is happening till it goes bang. does your purchased cylinder have these additional safety devices ???? fancy taking your chances on your safety to "save a few bucks" or do you want to leave it up to the experts ? HOW much is a "a few bucks" worth to you compared to the lives of you, your family, your colleagues or employees around you??