David R

I think with a tank of that size you'd be foolish not to have euro bracing and a couple of front-to-back center braces, as my old tank did.

Exactly! Yes they might not eat as many native birds (gut content doesn't show the body count of kills-for-fun) but there are all the other nuisance factors to be considered too. Again it shows a double standard for cats vs any other introduced animal. Sugar-coating feral cats in urban areas by giving them some cute name doesn't change the fact that they're unwanted and a nuisance to the rest of the population who haven't been brainwashed by the cats hypnotic powers.

It's your dream tank, don't skimp. 300x120x70 15mm glass, sorted. Greg said he wouldn't be happy building my tank out of 12mm, even at 65 high, so I don't think he would be keen to do longer.

Slowly!! Got the glass sorted, waiting on engineer friend for stand... As for the mix, it really does come down to the individual fish, all you can do is start out with a bunch of juvi's and be prepared to thin/separate them if needed. It is always a delicate balancing act, especially in smaller tanks, sometimes removing one or two will upset the balance further...

TBH I think that tank is far better suited to african cichlids than most of the american ones we get! I'd go for a single-species colony of one of the smaller species, perhaps brichardi as you suggested, or yellows, or demasoni. I really like the look of a good sized group of a single species, but if you want to mix it up you could probably do something like Smidey suggested.

Tank is too short for CLs IMO, they really need 6'+ length to thrive, would probably be ok up to ~4-5" if there is a strong flow, but they are active fish with the potential to grow to a foot in length, they really do need space to swim. As for discus, I'd be reluctant to keep a fish that grows to 20cm tall in a 40cm deep tank, by the time you add enough substrate for plants and a gap at the top you're probably not going to have much more than 30cm height. I think the idea of some larger schooling fish like congos, scissortails, or those red line torpedo barbs would look good in a planted tank that size.

My old garage got up to 40C in summer, so you probably don't want to harness that much heat... I'd be inclined to insulate the room rather than the tank, especially if you're going to have other tanks in there, or even just for the sump. You will need to turn the air over to avoid the stink factor, I never got around to doing that with my old room, not quite sure what I'm going to do with the big tank here.

Interesting, I'd have thought a tin roof shed would be fairly similar to the outside temp? Certainly my old garage in Auckland fluctuated hugely within 24 hours. With the overnight lows being around 16-18C I guess the concrete floor and tank water would be helping hold some heat in. I still think I'd run the heaters with the thermostat turned down low just in case, I guess it depends what fish you're keeping though.

Also cooling it down equally fast at night. I hope what ever you're keeping is tolerant of temperature fluctuations...

Bingo; money. Clean Green 100% Pure NZ cares about the environment dearly, until there's a buck to be made. Trout, dairy, road vs rail transport, commercial fishing, etc etc etc. ps, :thup: for keeping your cats well!! we had our perfectly healthy cat put down years ago because of behavioral issues, she was attacking my wife on a daily basis and drawing blood...

What I want to know is what was used as justification to make pet ferrets illegal and what makes those same criteria not applicable to cats. Feral cats only come from one place; pet cats. Most other species (koi and ferrets for example) that have proven themselves to be able to establish wild populations have been declared unwanted organisms and removed from the pet trade. What makes cats not subject to the same scrutiny?

I like how you've future-proofed the stand to hold something bigger...

It's for their own protection as much as anything, I've long lost count of the number of sheep/cows we've run over at work because they're out wandering. As Jen mentioned earlier, its the same for cats. The public crapping/spraying/fighting/terrorising is just a part of the reason they should be contained, if they're out roaming they could (and do) get run over, attacked by a dog (on the dogs property), get injured fighting other cats (feral and domestic) or possums, etc etc.

Second to last paragraph; http://www.3news.co.nz/Cat-killer-anger ... fault.aspx If an animal is on my property and I kill it humanely it is legal, I guess it also applies to other animals as farmers regularly and willingly shoot roaming dogs if they're harassing stock. Sadly it doesn't seem to apply to people as you generally get in trouble using excessive force defending your property. And there is nothing innocent about a roaming animal doing damage to another [innocent] persons property. Still waiting for a single reasonable reason why cats should be allowed to roam freely outside of their owners property....

I guess you think woman wearing short skirts are asking for it too? Can you give me one other example of where a person or persons property is allowed to interfere with another persons property in such a way as cats do? Even children aren't allowed to be as much of a nuisance! Would you have a problem with me "taking responsibility and action to prevent and resolve the issue" by humanely killing said cat if I find it on my property? Because that is every bit as legal as the cats freedom to roam...

Maybe a better analogy, if someone robs my house is that their problem for being thieving scum, or my problem for having a house? :-?

Can't remember the exact dollar value now, but you could have bought a nice mid-range car instead...

So if I don't fence my dogs in and they bite your child's face off, is that my problem for not controlling my dogs, or your problem for having a child? As for using dog control laws not being enforced thoroughly as justification for not putting in place laws to control cats, perhaps we should apply the same logic to laws governing speeding and methamphetamine...

Someone in Auckland was advertising them a while back on TradeMe with a big ~700L 1/4 round one. I asked for a price for a 10x4x30" and the price they gave me was considerably more than it would have cost to have one sent here from Tenecor in the US...

think imported L46 kinda money, maybe more.....

I've often wondered why peope turn heaters off over summer, if its warm enough then they're not going to be on anyway, so turning them off is saving zero electricity and removing the safety net in case the air temp drops cooler than expected.

I love the oatmeal, kinda strange to see them doing something so factual but still good!!

not sure if I posted this already... http://youtu.be/k2-15mYWpmA

Dangerous advice, IMO. While many species will tolerate or "do ok" in cooler water, many won't and it increases the chance of certain diseases. Clown Loaches and whitespot is a great example, I'd never keep CLs under about 27-8C, same goes for other equatorial species like Uaru that come from warm water areas and are susceptible to such things. Looking at a world map it's not hard to see that fish all lumped under the "tropical" term span a vast range of latitudes, extending well beyond the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn. Even if other factors like altitude, rainfall, shade/cover etc are ignored, it is pretty obvious that there will be an equally large spectrum of temperatures encountered by fish living within this zone. Some species (eg Gymnogeophagus) that come from further north or south of the equator will encounter a fairly large variation in temperatures (G. balzanii, the only species we get here, can experience temps as low as 15C in winter and close to 30C in summer), while species closer to the equator will experience far less fluctuation in temp and therefor may be less tolerant of extremes above and below what they are suited to. I believe temperature is actually more important to species than most other water conditions [provided the extremes of either are avoided], and I'd be more inclined to mix fish from different water conditions than different temperatures. IME CLs certainly don't do as well at lower temperatures, and I attribute my poor success with G. balzanii to constantly keeping the species at higher temperatures and not giving them a winter 'cool down' period, as is often suggested. The hardest part of all this (IMO) is getting accurate info about what sort of temperature fish encounter in their natural environment. Obviously it isn't as simple as looking at a map (eg, some Corydoras come from the equatorial zone but live in smaller shaded or high-altitude streams and therefor don't encounter [or tolerate] the high temps of other lowland Amazon Basin species from similar latitudes) but doing so should give you some idea of the kind of temps a fish is better suited to. How far outside of their natural range a fish will thrive/tolerate/survive is anyone's guess really, and blanked advice that we're keeping our fish too hot should be taken cautiously, IMO.

Far too unpopular, its pretty obvious that in NZ we car about the environment but only if it doesn't upset too many people or cost/lose too much money. Can't import many tropical fish, yet we allow and encourage trout in our waterways because of the money sport fishing brings in. Not allowed to own/import many reptile species, yet the owning/breeding/distributing/proliferation of cats (which have well proven themselves to be capable of establishing feral populations and killing native species) are completely fine and unregulated. 100% pure clean green NZ, can't swim in most of our rivers because of pollution from our dairy industry... As for the question of 'is it legal to kill cats', the answer is yes if it is done humanely. http://www.3news.co.nz/Cat-killer-anger ... fault.aspx Having worked at a suburban nursery and seen the damage cats do to small plants in dry soil, been asphyxiated by the stench of turds while watering in a greenhouse on a hot day, having witnessed what they do to plastic film greenhouse roofs in a matter of days, and experiencing first hand how difficult [impossible] it is to keep them out I completely share his frustration.