David R

I agree Barrie that a register of dedicated breeders listing the fish they breed is a good idea, its the encouraging of people to breed something as a one off just to get another notch in their belt I disagree with. You're right, to a point. If you take two inbred runts with lousy colours you're not going to produce good fry no matter how well you raise them. Thats another reason for my stance, a dedicated breeder looking to establish him/herself as a supplier of quality fish will pick his breeding stock carefully in order to produce good fry, where as the amateur just doing it for the fun/gold star is more likely to pick a couple of randoms from the lfs/trademe and is less likely to cull inferior fry, especially if it means they don't get their star...

If you try to make a living out of your hobby you'll just make your hobby a chore. I've seen it happen many times. I understand someone on an extreme budget might have this dilemma, but I think most of us realise its not likely that we'll make a profit out of the hobby and IMO if that is your motivation for it (unless its on a commercial scale where you're actually relying on it to put food on the table) then perhaps its time to take a step back. The reason they have a problem moving the fish on at a fair price is supply and demand. The easier a fish is to breed, the more people breed them and the more fry there is for sale. Encouraging more people to breed these fish so they can get a gold star only increases the supply of these fish in our small market and drops their value, which seriously impinges on the sales of the lfs/importer/serious breeder, all who are vital to this hobby. As for the "who cares" thing, is that really the society's attitude? I'm sure that there's plenty of people who will disagree, but making a trivial competition out of breeding fish is pointless and bordering on irresponsible IMO. I've been keeping fish [and not just guppies as most people will know] for over 10 years now, and if I had bothered to register I would only have one "gold star". Does that make me les of a fishkeeper? Someone could walk into Hollywood today and pick up a dozen easy to breed fish and in a few months could have a dozen "gold stars". The challenge of breeding a fish should be all the motivation someone needs, not because they're trying to get more stars than Joe down the street....

Get some before that happens? Its one of those things every fishkeeper should have in the cupboard....

Or you could just buy some clove oil?

Is it?? I thought many purebred cats/dogs came with desexing contracts to help rpotect the breeders market. Look at the problems that can arise with purebred dogs due to a lack of genetic diversity, from unscrupulous breeders crossing closely related animals. The NZKC goes to a heap of trouble to prevent this and make sure its breeders aren't selling animals that are going to have hereditary problems, shouldn't us fish keepers be doing the same? Your example is a bit extreme, but if I went to the trouble and expense of importing some rare cichlids I'd probably only sell one sex, and pass on pairs to people who I trusted to breed them well. I'm not really sure what you mean by saying someone is "better" at breeding a fish. The quality of the fry really comes down to the quality of the parents, the person who is breeding them is either doing it or isn't. IMO the signs of someone who is "better" at breeding would be the person who selects his breeders out of a large group of fish, and grows his fry out to a decent size and culls anything slightly inferior. This is why I disagree with the FNZAS breeding scheme, which pretty much just encourages anybody to try to bred as many different fish as possible. There's no points for quality, just get two average fish from the lfs, and once they've done their thing you get the gold star for your chart (just like when you were a kid ). Really its just doing a disservice to those who put a lot of effort into breeding quality fish [or importing fish from good overseas breeders], especially those who rely on it for their livelihood.

If you've got quantities of better quality fish that you're willing to sell cheaply why not pass them on to the supplier so they can be distributed nation wide? Get some decent quality and correctly named fish in the shops rather than the "90% rubbish" you say is out there (I can't comment on the quality of africans in shops as I hardly even look at them). Good thinking, I wish more people would do this, especially if they're not in it for the money. Just go to trademe and sort the 'Fish' category by lowest price. You'll see convicts, livebearers, kribs, jewels, and various africans all for $0.50-$1.00 for a few fry. You can almost guarantee that these are from unplanned spawnings where a person has bough a couple of fish from the lfs and had them pair up by chance and is now selling off the fry to try to make a buck. There was no quality control in the selection of the parents and there is no quality control of the fry, and you know whats going to happen to the next person who buys a bunch of 5-10 for a couple of dollars? They're going to have them breed and next thing you know there's more cheap low quality fish being pawned for dirt cheap on TradeMe, talking sales away from shops and proliferating mud fish. Imagine if somebody back in the day had the sense to only sell male convict cichlids, I can't help but think that now we'd be able to get big grunty wild caught or F1 cons with good genes and interesting colours imported, or perhaps even bred here by specialist breeders. Instead we have every man and his dog selling runty inbred fry for $0.50....

Thats really sad to hear, hopefully all these people who have been dead keen to get some finally put their money where their mouth is. I thought I'd help out by posting the link for all the people who are "genuinely interested in buying" them, but I guess because its not me who's buying them the link isn't allowed. Busted on a technicality again eh... :roll:

You may not post any links or references to TradeMe, other online auction, or classified advertisement site to discuss an item for auction/sale, this applies to expired listings and linked pictures unless you are genuinely interested in buying a particular aquatic related item and want to learn more about its use and if it will suit your purpose.Link removed by Caryl

If the odessy is a bit big go for an orthia. If you get a 1.8 manual one they're not too gutless and good on the gas. The new Mazda Attenza wagons look nice too but I don't know anything about them.

What about the other catfish???

Check the bag before you buy "pool filter" sand, I've bought it three times and ended up with three different products...

Mystic thats an Indo Tiger, not an American Tiger. AT's have narrower bars that usually don't taper as much as IT's bars, and are more silver than white. Head shape is also different.

Cool, whats the species? How available are they? Size????

Pardon my ignorance, but what is that fish??

Ryan even 18mm ply is quite flexible, in comparison to glass which has virtually zero bending before it cracks. That ply will do almost nothing to support the ends of the tank, there is really only one thing to do; stop being a scrooge and buy a proper stand for the tank. A 2m tank holds a lot of water and will do a lot of damage if it breaks and ends up on your floor, not to mention the cost of the fish, the equipment and the tank itself.

You could just buy some? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Ou ... 223881.htm Shipping to Southland could be pricey though, given their large volume. Or just go to the supermarket and get some bean trays...

They look better when faded anyway... I bought some as my black work pants always seemed to get white marks from the washing powder and it seems to have stopped that, can't comment on the fading yet.

Try some of that Biosuppliers frozen discus tucker (or cichlid tucker).

Do you keep it in a tank with gravel? If so you should performa an autopsy, my money would that it got blocked up from eating gravel.

Is it alright to organise a bulk buy from a local shop then? :-?

Good luck. Probably just easier to find an importer/supplier. Its not like they're rare overseas.

They are on the list, and because MAF only looks at species (not subspecies) all three P. palmas varieties could theoretically be imported. HFF albany had at least half a dozen when I bought mine about 4 years ago and Mt Roskill had a similar number, so unless they've all jumped out or choked on gravel there will be more around.

how big are the guppies?!

I guess you're lucky Warren isn't here any more...

And if the government sorted its mess out and stopped wasting such vast quantities of our money on frivolous stuff we'd probably be able to afford it on our current level of taxation...