OutOfAfrica

I was there too and they are deffinitely some sort of hybrid all right - I suspect Venustus X Livingstoni. The bodies are generally long like a Livingstoni and they also have the markings of both species in a random pattern, the bellies are yellow like Venustus in general. Head shape varies as well and resembles both types. They do not have a spotted pattern as you would expect to find on a Polystigma. Do not really resemble a Fusco in malanoid patterning either but could be a feasable candidate - these things were weird to look at to say the least OOA

Gee, those fronts look exactly like my old fronts. Wonder why that is. Nice to see them doing well OOA

Be a little carefull with the white worms Daniel - a bit fatty. Bloodworms - we had a guy down here who used to feed these to his Trop Dub to get them into spawning condition . Amazing they never bloated :-? If I get desperate I go down to a local pond and net out some Mysis shrimp, seems to do the trick OOA

Afrikan - it all depends on your perspective. To me having only a few hundred fish left in aprox 40 odd 3 foot aquariums is pretty damn barren. To the guy who has a single 48 x 18 x 18 aquarium sitting on a stand I guess he would think things are looking good. Ryan - give me that list of yours and I will let you know what I can do for everyone in your area. OOA.

Why is that Ryan. I have gone from several hundred maybe a thousand fish to just hundreds. Still fish avaliable and I have kept you in mind to. You will be surprised at what is coming your way. I have been hassled about some of them but have made a special effort to keep then for you. PM "loopy" and ask her about the tank thing, she will vouch for me. Locals have taken quite a lot of stock and that suits me best as it the easiest solution for me. Tropheus has just left with a poly box full heading back to Akld. Still more here though. Tropheus has convinced me to keep a few but I am not going to let anyone down, that is not my style. There is something here for everyone. Geez mate just get on that damn plane and come get some for yourself

Auratus in the 70's - this would have been a VERY exciting adition to the hobby back then . People would have been amazed at their spawning and parenting habits back then I would expect I spawned them way back when they were Pseudotropheus too - oh how things have changed . Still one of my favourites actually. OOA

Hi Team. My fish room is looking a little bare these days BUT I will continue to poke around the local shops checking out the latest imports in the future. I didn't actually realise there were so many huge African Fans out there until recently. I am prepared to let you all know if any odd balls come through the system. I will attempt to ID them correctly for you and let you know whats about. We have several independant importers down here and occasionally they get something in that has been mis- IDed. This is not their fault because they do not have a clue what they have either - African Cichlids can be very challenging to differentiate between and you can't blame them for incorrect IDing. The idea is that you guys can benefit from getting something a little different. I may not get the species right every time but I do know what is odd ball and what is main stream - gotta be a good start NB: I am NOT an importer and if MAF make a mistake then lets see if we can capitalise on it. I am a consumer like you and it is up to MAF to train their staff correctly. I am not going to get into a discussion on this matter. OOA

Expert - NO. Nobody on this forum can claim to be an expert, even the experts struggle through their chosen professions. I just like African Cichlids. Names - doesn't really bother me to be frank. There are individuals out there that will go by any name given whether it be current or not. Pictures speak a thousand words and if all the specimens are of the same variety then that is what matters ( this is how you often come across a little gold mine ). At least if the hobbyist is responsible they will keep them together and avoid cross breeding with other species - this is very important. Doing your home work and IDing your fish is a great step in the right direction, but does it really matter. No not really because they will still look the same when all is said and done. Correct IDing is probably very important for the likes of MAF but even they struggle with it all. The fact that I know of or have fish that are not supposed to be in NZ is not through my doing but MAF's problem - I don't check imports and give the official nod. None of my pets are a threat to Native flora or fauna in NZ and this I am happy with. Take the case of our friends the "Golden Axolotl" - now where the hell did they come from? These are not allowed to be imported FULL STOP ( I tried a few years back through the correct channels ) but they are here in force - how come ? The biggest threat to these guys is another introduced species - THE TROUT!!! We all know how protected the trout are - if the species in question has any significant economical gain to the NZ government then it appears that "they are ok" - yeah right. Me - I remained unconvinced. So keep on doing your thing Frenchy and Co. Life is all about sharing experiences and I enjoy your input greatly. Keep up the good work team and chow for now Point to ponder: If all the fish brought into this country were correctly IDed then we wouldn't have much to choose from that is for sure. Have you seen the permitted list - pathetic to say the least. I am so glad a few gems get past the inspection process. I actually personally very much enjoy the challenge of IDing an obviously incorrectly labelled specimen / tank residents. Think about this paragraph VERY carefully because the choice of varieties we enjoy today is a result of ( dare I say it ) incompetence. BTW: My fish room is looking a little barren now actually so not much to take away regardless of who you are

From my limited? knowledge. When Mr Konnings published his book "Ad Konings Book of Cichlids and all the other fishes of Lake Malawi" it would appear that he identified S. Fryeri as S. Ahli ( Page 104 ) . Since these early publications many fish have been re-classified and this is where the confusion seems to stem from. Is any one right or wrong, no not really, maybe just not up to date. The pic's above should resolve this discussion - or will it ( most likely the Cichlids from all around the world will be re-classified yet again and the debate will carry on :roll: ). Do you Mr / Mrs Fryeri / Ahli know there name has changed, I doubt it. Point: I had Proto' Tan' ( Red Empress ) imported under the name Hap' Fenestratus - this way they were brought in legally. I used the reclassification and old documentation to my advantage and it payed off . So who was right or wrong? Nobody really and do you think I give a s#%t - ahh no! NZ now has Red Empress - or myself and Ronald do anyway ( well so far ). From this original stock other enthusiasts will benefit . Happy times to all I also know that Stigmatochromis Modestus "Eastern" are here too, so one day I guess we will have access to these as well .Tropheus has been breeding them from my original stock I got quite some years ago OOA

So how long ago did you import the African's into the country then? OOA

Are those the ones you got off of me Caryl ? If so then I still have them OOA

Got them and they are for sale. Large and small examples avaliable. OOA.

I have breeding "Kadangos" for sale if you are keen. $130 for the four - 1x Male, 3x female. These are the real deal. The male is in the pic "ChCh room closing down" OOA.

Who knows what is really going on then - maybe ALL the Africans we have everywhere are in fact hybrids then The guy I get a lot of fish off has brought in many weird varieties with common names attached ( common = permitted ). I even had VC10's ( Placidochromis milomo ) listed as geraffes . But who am I to complain. I suspect he didn't even know what they where. I have had Tyranochromis Macrostoma, Cyprochromis Lepstoma as well, + many many other odd balls. Some of my original T Macro' may still be swimming around in the large tank at "Butterfly Creek" over here in Auckland - these guys brought heaps of my fish a few years back Oh well - I will just enjoy what I have for now

Frenchy, What about Copadichromis verduyni ? . I am curious now. The importer I got them off brings in weird species from time to time so maybe this may be one of those interesting finds. I have just looked through my Ad Konings book and Aqualex CD. They do actually look VERY similar to this species. What do ya think. Remember - these guys breed true - all off spring are miniature versions of their parents and turn out like Mum and Dad when mature. So they must be something legitimate.

Frenchy, Most of the post I am all open ears about - life is one big learning curve. BUT, I take exception to your comment about "I think they are these so I will just sell them as such anyway" or words to that effect. I try Extremely hard to get it right so others don't start mixing up what little we have to start with. If you take a look at thread " ChCh fish room closing up" there is another pic - it may help ? These are not hybrids, I will see if I can find a pic of Dad somewhere? Any fish I have doubts about or are not what they should be ( and I cannot find a suitable match ) go to the great tank in the corner and there they meet another mouth brooder I have - MR SHOVELNOSE. Only problem though is he doesn't seem to "hold" for long . Some fish do take a while to get the hang of "holding" though so I wil keep trying LOL :lol:

Mixed them with S Fryeri - OH NO :0 , why why why. Excuse me while I go beat my head against a wall

Frenchy - we agree totally on this. I put it down as C Chryso because that is what most people know them as. When mature they " fill out " much the same as a lot of Utaka do ( and South American Cichlids do ). NO NO NO NO NO NO NO - I NEVER MIX MY SPAWNING FISH - EVER! I only mix my display fish and NEVER take fry from these tanks. I have not sold any of these so far, I have just distributed them amongst enthusiasts locally ( of which all but a few have managed to either give up or kill them :evil: ). As for the comment: "Have you been "thinking" they were C. chrysonotus for years, without being sure. But hey I will sell as this because I can?" WHAT A F#@K N INSULT :evil: These guys have bred true for as long as I have had them. No odd balls - just like mum and dad when all grown up. If I have miss ID'ed them then so be it. Sorry for being Human. I will leave it up to " the experts " - you guys decide. They breed true whatever " the experts " ID them as and that is very important no matter what strain / species. As for Azur' Fryeri' cross - good one guys :roll:

It is not me who is confused - I know what I have. I started keeping Africans when M. Auratus were classified as Psuedotropheus . Oh how things have changed. But I know where you are coming from

Dad looked like the fish below - C azureus. I sold him and mum quite some time ago otherwise I would have a pic of him and not junior :-? Unfortunately my latest decision means that my original parent stock has gone already - funny how it does occur to you to take pics until a situation like this comes along :roll: F N scientists - when will they stop re-classifying everything, makes it hard for the novice to know what is going on with what :evil:

C. Chryso and C. Azureus are often named as the same fish - does not make things any easier :roll: I am picking azureus from the picks - beautiful none the less. Yep females have the spots. I have been spawning these for years too and they all look the same when mature so no probs there. I also have S Fryeri - totally different fish altogether. All my fish have been "line bred" ( for lack of a better phase ) and all come out exactly like their parents when raised to maturity so no mix ups here

Again :roll:

Well here goes. Hope this pic thing works. http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s294 ... onotus.jpg

I am hearing you herefishiefishie, This is one strain I have been breeding for 9 years now, one of my longest staples - fantastic fish. They do take a while to colour but it is their finage that takes the most time - do not really look their best until aprox 2 years old. Of particular interest is that the "Cobue" strain is very elongated compared to the "Kadango" strain. It is all on the official Malawi CD, check it out for yourself.

Yeah thats me. How have you been. Still looking after the little guys? I saw you driving around down here quite some time ago but you were obviously on a mission, doing the pet shop rounds no doubt Oh Yeah - To anyone interested: I found the offending Borleyi on my Malawi CD - C. Borleyi "Cobue". Check it out for yourself, Orange stripe on anal fin and all