Pies

Christchurch has 3 (maybee 4 importers) and Aukland has 2 (3 with nick and steve, 4 if you counted brooklands). Auckland has more people in it than all the south island. I don't see how another importer can hurt. This is what this debate was/is about. Nick/Steve are going to ruin 'the hobby' and push up long term prices by starting their own quarantine and distroy the LFS and other businesses. Does this mean some of you have changed your mind? I hope so because the very concept is silly. No-one is knocking the fact that importing is hard work frought with problems. In Christchurch you have 2 (that I know of) importers who also retail there stuff. and it works out cheaper for you (the consumer). In Auckland, much larger volume, they don't do this, hence that extra 100/120% I keep talking about. I suspect if Aquanet (alois business) was suppying direct to the market, this whole debate would be moot. I could by-pass the LFS, who I feel given my own dealings are nothing bud shoddy rip off merchants, yet those who still wanted to use the stores could, and they would corner the 'walkon traffic' and continue to do so. There is room in the market for a supplier to supply direct to the market place, using the net/trademe, mailorder or whatever. I get to save a lot of money because the stores can't rip me off, so I am happy,the importer (who takes the risks) gets paid. Its all good. Layton - your comment earlier about there being no LFS in Wellington is a fair one, and perhapps it does alter my point of view, as its very frustrating for us down here. Stores will order marine, and they have offered to do us 80% markup on wholesale (+gst), good eh? In Christchurch your lucky, you prices are way low anyway. When I started I looked at yellow tangs, Pet World/Redwoods $130, Jansens $199, Hollywood $179.00. Given this matrix it looks as though the shops in christchurch (who retail and import) are making a larger market as a percentage but less money then in Auckland. Why no store in Auckland has started is own quarantine is beyond me, if there is a market for it in Christchurch there MUST be a market in a place with 5x the population? I think in the end its easier and cheaper not too, and people will pay those prices, or have nothing. As for equipment, Auckland seem to have a reasonable selection of gear in there stores. Of course the prices are insane. Pie

It was Nick that said that not Steve. Now see, we are so 'close'. I too would rather buy directly from the importer, for the saving in money and for the fact that there is 'less doubble handeling' and less' skungy shop tank action going on. Less stress for the fish/coral the better. Alois disagreed with me last time I said this (I think in one of the banned/missing threads! shame I can't reference it...) but I think its true. And here is the thing, I don't have a problem with that, infact if anyone should make money it should be Alois. And I support him and his business 100% (i have no options as there are no retailers here in Wellington). Its that next step that annoys me. The $50 sold from the importer to the $120 sold in the shop. This bit is the bit that frustrates me, where is the value proposition in this? Overs heads and blah blah aside, the importer does a lot more 'work', makes (guess here I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong) 100% margin (seems fair) but this 100% is worth 1/4 (is my math right?) of the 100% (120%+ for many stores) of what the shop makes. Now I have no problem with shops doing what they do best, but in all honestly many of us have got appauling advice from shops, often the advice is for one reason. MONEY. I get great advice from Alois, I don't get (always/often/ever) get good advice from the shops. E.g. There is one guy here selling marine fish/coral. I have not met him, not have I been to his shop. I did however meet someone recently who started and delt with this guy. He was sold a berlin skimmer (small, about the size of a can of hair spray) for a 550 litre tank. A doubble strip 03 blue light tube. 2 pieces of live rock, both about the size of 2 fists and an under gravel filter, a bag of salt (tap water is fine but I can sell you a filter later on when you need it. A U.V filter. Within 2 weeks of the tank being setup he was sold a bubble coral (dead now), a cleaner wrasse (dead now), a Bi-Bolour angel (dead now), a H.Magnificia Anemone (dead now), a mandarin fish (dead now) and a rock with Zoeanthids on it (still going strong!). Now although this may be an extreme example I am sure its not all that un-usual. Show me the benifit of a shop and maybee i'd ease of a little. As far as I am concerned, if you want to talk about 'the hobby', lets support people who are going to support 'the hobby'. Alois is here, Steve is here, hell I am here and I have nothing for sale. Where are the stores? Where is the value? I need nothing from the hobby, as I have stated, if it becomes too difficult I will just import my own stuff, I know 4 people who do, doesn't seem to be to much of a chore. Selling equipment/stock for large markups is not 'supporting the hobby', its feeding off it, feeding of those who don't know better and are eager for advice. This part of the hobby is what makes a sinic (sp?) out of me. So support those who support the hobby and hold back on those who don't. To me thats the essence of this whole debate. Pies

Layton - Do you really believe what your saying? I mean really? Do you think that having fewer importers than we have now would really bring the prices down? Really? Is there any one person here (other than layton) who thinks this is true? As for 'The Hobby'. Its going to be bad for 'The Hobby', 'Good for the hobby' or whatever. We are the hobby. I promise that as prices drop, interest will increase, 'the hobby' benifits. If people go out of business (not that anyone other than layton thinks this will happen), then they need to be smarter about the way they do business, if they really were 'helping the hobby' then they would have a loyal following and have no problems. Layton - You say you brought stuff directly from Alois (an importer). If you believe what you say, then why didn't you buy the stuff from Jansens or Hollywoods? They do mail order? Isn't buying from Alois a direct contridiction to what you have been saying? Why is it OK for you to buy from Alois directly, but for Nick/Steve to do the same so bad? Why shouldn't everyone here buy direct from Alois and cut out the shop as you have done? I would completely support this, but you don't, even though you do. To protect 'the hobby', I will make a deal with all of you. If 'the hobby' suffers so badly that no-one can get the stuff they want because of the cheap prices and higher availablilty I will personally start up my own facility here in Wellington, and EVERYONE, shop, off the street, wholesaler, importer, EVERYONE is welcome to buy stuff from me. And if I happen to make a few bucks from it I am sure I will enjoy all of your full support Pies

Pegasus Wrote: Its an opnion, if you disagree tell him, I don't see anything unaceptable about his coment. Unjustified or unpopular? If unjustified comments require moderation, you sure have your work cut out, there are more than enough on here (this board, the internet in general). Pie

No resentment here or any animosity, that is other than the fact the we are being stopped from discussing it further. Layton - No seceret that I don't agree with your last statement. There is little if any doubt that the events happening now can only have a positive effect on the hobby, infact I see no negitives whatsoever. Competetion is healthy if not nessessary. If you can find some examples where competition has had a negitive effect (for the consumer) i'd be surprised. I can't get Telecom out of my mind. However I would like to say that just because I disagree with this point of view, doesn't mean I don't want to hear it. Who knows, maybee a point of view will be presented that will change my mind. Knowlege cannot be increased without debate. Alois announced some 'discounted corals' recently. Alois, whats the action here, any indication of costs and availability. I have a 1400 litre tank to fill. Steve/Nick. Whats up with you guys? Are you really doing something or is it a big stir? If its really happening any news for us? Prices, time frames or anything else? As I stated before I have a 1400 litre tank to fill. Pies

If it was me, personally I would just add it to the main system, a few cups a week or somethin. Don't know why I would do that, its just what I would do. Your new system is plenty big enough to handle a few KG of sand cycling Can have as much sand as you want from me if you come and get it, although I suspect someone closer will be able to look after you. If you do get stuck, let me know i'll hook you up. Pies

Can't be that expensive, its what Brendon uses to test his tank (as I understand it). Pie

Everything I have read sais silica is bad given that is what Diatoms feed on. I agree that maybee using silica sand doesn't mean you will get silicates in you tank water though. No doubt that silicate sand can be used in a remote DSB, seen people online doing this (USA and Europe). Something to remember is that bacetrria (from what I have read) can't live on silicate sand as its too smooth. This is why it is not reccomended for freshwater tanks, not because of the silicates but because of the fact that its not bilogocally friendly. Chimera - crushed coral and coral sand are the same thing to the best of my knowledge. Pie

One of the perks of working in IT. Japanese Motor Iwaki is whre its at, the American made motors are the 'poor cousin' of the Iwaki family, but cheaper. Pies

Layton is right and I agree completely. Retail salts are specially blended to compensate from what is missing in rock salt. I am not to sure if any one brand is better than another (I am sure there are differences). If your going to use saltmix, personally i'd be buying something I could trust, its not that expensive (its making the water that holds the expense). Also are there issues with Phosphate and Nitrate with rock salt? Pie

If they are flatworm the will come out when the lights are on, not off. A sixline wrasse 'may' eat them, mine didn't. Also mandarins 'may' eat them, mine didn't. Scooter blennies 'may' eat them, mine didn't. Leapoard Wrasse may eat them, don't have one.

I took a photo (think I posted it here) of one in Vanuatu. Not sure exactly what, some sort of polychete worm, approx 2.5 meters long. About as round as a large sossage. PieMMmmmmsossage

Planaria, search this board for some of my photos of these little critters. Leave them or Salifert Flatworm Exit worked for me. Pies

Steve A (whos tank I took photos of) was having a problems with corals being attacked at the base a few years ago. He had to re-organise his tank and in the sounds found a worm he said would have been 1.5M long. Gross. Pies

JBL have a very good reputation in freshwater (I have a JBL c02 system and its tops). Red Sea? The Red Sea kits i have tried are, ummmmm, well, not very good. Steve do they have new kits now? I like the idea of buying refils, sounds like a little saving and 'pro planet' at the same time. Save the trees. Pie

Layton - I could use a holiday! I have updated my thread whenever there has been something to post. My website (homereef) is being moved to Aussie and I have found an unlimited bandwith unlimited diskspace hosting option for free, so would like to get that moved ASAP. The new site will be similar format to the last, so expect more info on there than here. Starting to get a little anxious about the new tank now, been so long. I hope its in the house within 2 weeks, but don't want it here until we finished renovating the HT room and Dining room. But expect some inhome pics within the next 3 weeks for sure. Pie PS: Thanks Chimera i'll be in touch closer to the time about the Iwaki.

Gotta have the STREAMS I'll be running 3 Streams on the new tank, + the 3 closed loops and the tank return through 2 sea swirls. I am hoping that will be enough. I would like to think I can run 2x Sea Swirls with one IWAKI 100, what do you think. Be approx 12 feet of head. Piemania.

Why 40s for the closed loops? Why not 30s? I have a 30 which I am going to use, and if I could find another 1 or 2 of those that would be HEAPS of flow for a single closed loop. I will use EHIEM 1262s for the ballance of NON-IWAKIs.

How was the water today, kill of anything in your tank will those nastys and polutants?

Then stop wasting your time here and get to it.

There are cetain types of polychete worms that do eat corals, but the common worm (as pictured above) is belived to be harmless and an excellent scavanger. Check 'A Spineless Colum' on REEFKEEPING ONLINE for all the information ever needed about the polychete's. Pie

That is not a picture of my coral. Although my coral is very similar/same.

Hey mate. No problem will try and organise something over the next week or so. Don't worry about me for now, don't really want to add any coral to my tank until I get the new system up and running. Will collect later on down the track though

I purchased 3 clownfish from Hedi at petworld, $29ea. They were in pretty average condition when I got them (friend brought them up) but all survived and are all still doing very well. Christchurch prices on fish and coral tend to be much better than Auckland, been discussed before, the shops in Christchurch import and sell so there is less doubble mark-upping. Good luck with it. Since we are looking for fish, anyone got or know where I can get a powder blue. I pay cash Pies

For $120 I assume thats Christchurch I would consider buying a return trip and go down myself. Freight is a killer.