Pies

I am going to setup a sump for out freswater tank at some stage soon. I would like to know if anyone else out there is using one? I intend on using canister filters as well as the sump (3 canisters maybee 4). The sump will house a heater, carbon, and I was thinking of the traditional bioball tower with filter wool on top, then bioball & siporex after that. Maybee big enough to hold 2 buckets of bioballs etc. Tank will be 650 liter. 5ft. c02. Heavy planted community. Cheers Pieman

Translation like me a lot informative really Youthank Brednon Pies

DVD sounds good. I have made a low res vid and high res stills of my tank and sent it up to JetSkiSteve so anyone who wants to have a look let Steve know. I can burn and edit DVDs for anyone who is interested, but I don't have the time to do anything to smart, JetSkiSteve has DVD write too I think. Anyone one wants pics or movies of my tank send me a Stamped Self Addressed Envelope and $5.00 and I will send you a limited edition collecters edition 'HOMEREEF' DVD. The first 25 people to do so will also go into the draw to win a Blue Acropora frag with 6 runner up prices of Hagen test kits. Don't hesitate act today! Pies

I use 3 DECT phones at home, BT phone, PDA, PC, Router. 802.11G with B interfaces (PC, Router, FW, Laptop). Its all good. At well as 2.4 for my remote for HT. Ohhh garage door openers on this band too. My work is on a collision point for over 25 published 802.11b/g networks, + our own 2 unpublished segments (4 wireless networks through Wellignton CBD, its important to surf the web from your PDA while waiting for you coffee to be made We run BT everwhere (exaguration, 1 BT network in our foyer + whatever people are using at the time. DECT phones (CISCO VOIP + DECT cordless smartphones). Interferance does not prove to be a problem. You are right with what you are saying, but I can assure you that the real world application is much different. There are always new standards comming, that always look better/faster but its important to ground yourself in the now as well. Steve - English? English is dead. Pie

OK things sure are getting heated Hey we are all friends here right? Everyone - I have no doubt that there are some special tanks out there using and not using Zeovit, of this their is no arguement (thanks for the links reef, and there are many more awesome SPS tanks without Zeovit (or similar)). But lets think like this - not all tanks that don't have Zeovit (or similar) look that good, however all (most?) that do employ this sytem do. This is how I have looked at the Zeovit (or similar), that its a more likley to give me good colours, especially in a mixed reef like mine (SPS, LPS, Mushrooms and leathers). I am not sure what one is the original product - Zeovit, Zeobiobit, ZeoDeoDio, vodka, brown sugar or anything else! I belive the POINT of zeovitnzs post was simply that his product is called ZEOVIT, and thats it, if you belive that other products are the same (becaue Zeovit copied it or vice versa) this doesn't matter. ZEOVIT is ZEOVIT and ZEOBIOBAK is ZEOBIOBAK. So if you adding ZEOBIOBAK to your tank you are adding ZEOBIOBAK NOT Zeovit. Thats all he was saying, I think. I personally don't care which came first, or who copied who, what anything thinks of the contents. Not important to me. I chose the Zeovit system because of people I know and trust (JetSkiSteve for one) who have seen a tank using this system and say its AWESOME. Those who know JetSKiSteve will know him as a very 'hard sell'. So thats that. Now we can all get onto far more important things like sending me frags... Here is a pic of a Calustra. Not any Calustra though, this particular polyp is one of 4 survivors that spent 4 days in a plastic bag, with no water lost somewhere between Auckland and Wellington. The loss rate was about 70% for the calustra, which is pretty good! No Xenia survived, no leather survived, all mushrooms survived, as did all yellow polyps. And the sadest thing was a Pistol shrimp also survied, and as it fell into my tank, safe after 4 days in a plastic bag, one of my bangaii shot out and ate it...

Layton - You still are missing the point. 480mbs is going to be usefull for wireless networking, cd-rom drives, speakers etc etc. BT is still going to be the device connection standard. BT for phones, PDAs, home devices etc that don't require that kind of throughput. Saying BT is dead because of 480mbs throughput doesn't even make sense to me. 802.11x is dead too then because its to slow, wrong again. Different tools for different jobs. If BT is dead someone should tell Cisco & Nokia & Sony because you obviously know something they don't. Pies

Yeah I agree x10 will be shit for wavemaking. But usefull for light timers, sump timers heaters etc.

Layton - Thats a bit harsh man. I have delt with zeovitnz several times and found him to be nothing but friendly, helpful and very well informed. He has always replied to my emails, offered help and objective advice. I have purchased some Zeovit from him (havn't started to use it yet) and even have a few of his corals in my tank, his sevice was speedy and always kept me informed. We did have an issue over price (something worked out more expenive than I was first quoted) but I am happy with the resoultion I got and as that guy on TV sais 'its the putting right that counts'. My dealings with zeovitnz would rate 9/10. Pies

Layton - you couldn't be any more incorrect about BT. Wireless USB sits in the 2.4Ghz range, exactly the same range as BT and 802.11b/g so interferance is IDENTICAL. The only real consumer product that sits out of the 2.4Ghz range is 802.11A (&E but its not yet ratified) which sits in the 5Ghz range. This has been adopted from bridging on some networks but 'A' doesn't look to stay. FYI WiFi is simple a name givent to wireless networking, the proliferation of WiFi you talk about includes wireless USB and any other device in the small 2.4Ghz range. WiFi could be said to include any wireless networking device, its not a standard as much as its marketing lipstick, its a 'funny non-standard standard' that has a neat logo for laptops, pdas etc. Interferance for 802.11b/g is only common in places like NY, Singapore, Hongkong where there are to many devices in such a tight frequency. Not going to be a problem for us esp for our fishtanks in our homes!). I can detect (via CID) about 35 networks from my office (level 31 top floor, Grand Plimmer Tower Wellington CBD) and there will be many more not advertising their ident keys. Wireless USB is not going to resolve this, if anything its going to compound the problem by cramming more into the 2.4Ghz space. This is why BT 'can' be a good option, its low power means that its less likley to be a problem to other networks. Remeber BT is not for networking, it was designed for device connections (peer to peer) and it fills that niche very well (small, low power consumption, low interferance). BT has been picked up and in use by Cisco, Sony, Nokia, MS, Intel, Foundry, 3COM and many others, I am sure it will be a good enough option for the fish tank computer Wired devices are dead, security is a little bit of a problem at the moment though, but almost sorted, another 6 months. X10 is worth a look as it makes some of the wireless topic moot. Not sure why you wouldn't trust it, if used properly its 100%. I know many people with X10 devices who don't have any problems and only rave about it. Use a combo of X10 and wired seams the best option. As wired has major disadvantages (remote sump being the one that would annoy me). I see that as a major disadvange of the IKS, if should offer wired and wireless (X10). Pies

IRA - Is there a pill for whats wrong with you? Layton - BT is not dead, far from it. I use 802.11b/g at home and BT at home. Range is not an issue. It would be nice to have the controller away from the tank (eg another room, or near a PC). Connection to a PC I see as an advantage not a disadvantage (internet and datalogging), but I can understand not wanted i perminant connection. Reef - What you say about the lights would be VERY straight foward. You should be able to be far more sophistacted though and do temp = 26 fans on heaters off (I know they should be but we all know how average these heaters can be, 27 chiller on (if present), 28 lights off. Computers are good like that. Same for controlling PH, PH = 8.3 turn off c02 injection, bellow 8.3 turn it on If PH bellow 8.1 and lights are off then dose Kalk etc. VERY uber. Layton - Wired or x10 unwired? It would be cool to have all of the devices wired, then the controller remote (connected to PC for e.g. in another room). For programing using the PC and a GUI would be better than doing everything from one of those little LCDs with limited buttons. The ability to admin remotely could be easier then too as just one interface in html/java etc to publish internal or external. Remember to leave enough probes for Salinity and disolved oxygen. Alarms, email and SMS (via email gateway?) is a must.' Also so passive 'plug ins' that allow for Calcium readings and mg readings and alk readings manually to be inputed. Then maths to help create a dosing system or manual dosing system for things that are too expensive or unavailable via probes. You sure could do some cool stuff. Layton - Is there a limit to the amound of code (lines or mem) for the device and data loggers you have selected? AMPED! Piemania

JetSkiSteve you are an odd guy. You go to Steves house and you are confronted with a Plasma TV, hightech surround sound HT & one of the nicer reef tanks in the country and more cell phones than you would think possilbe. Yet at the same time he types with 1 finger and can't figure out how to use his digital camera and is a complete technophobe hahaha Layton - The Tunze controller is relay based, should be VERY simple to emulate in software. It does a fine job but I would love some more flexibility from it (like switch the pumps back and foward 100/30 30/100 in day and then run both 30% at night. There are a few places that have reversed the software from IKS, which has a much better (more configurable) wavemaker system (and can be used to drive Stream pumps). Dump that eth0 port and go wireless (802.11x or BT). Have you considered using a device like an Ipaq for the computer? This is the option I was looking at. More expensive but far options for coolness The Neptune controller is a good value unit, and can do most of what you have talked about (remote control, SMS, web page and PC integration). The only problem I see is that it only allows for 3 probes (temp, PH & ORP) and I don't think you can mix and match them (the only one you would drop would be ORP anyway as a computer without temp or PH would be a bit useless). Pieman

Good luck Layton. Like I said last time we spoke, I too looked at building my on controller etc for 2 reasons. I wanted the flexibility offered by the DIY (is this one of those low tech DIY options, not as complex as a skimmer?) computer. I did find however that the costs started to sneak up until the Neptune was looking like better value (from my perspective). However I understand why you would like to do it your self. Between me and some close friends and work collegues we have some fine technical people on hand, professionals who are always looking to show off how smart they are. Also on Ultimatereef there is a gu y(chriskirkby) who has built and uses his own computer controller. He will supply his source code from free on request. May be usefull to steal some of his maths for things like seasonal lighting etc. Not point and re-writing the same thing Reef - If it costs Layton a zillion dollars to build, it will still be cheaper than the IKS... Good work, good luck. Anything I can do to help. If it works or shows potential I would help fund a few prototypes. So to continue this thread. Reef has a DIY a skimmer, Layton DIY lighting and computer/controller, Pies has a DIY tank and NICKS has a DIY potplant pot. And no matter how badly your DIY skimmer goes its NEVER going to be as bad as a cyclone or queen (but sounds like the queen skimmers make good house hold decorations). Good luck! Piemania

I use Malaysian hardwood root and I can tell you it NEVER stops leeching! The leeching does more good than bad, but doesn't look the greatest. There is a soultion though. Run some activated carbon through the water and change it often. Carbon polishes the water and strips the colour agensts out. It does't effect much else (in freshwater). Its important to change it often though as after time it will break down a release all the toxins back into the water... Also with carbon it will stop any medication from working, so don't use it on medicated tanks. My tank water when running carbon is crystal clear. Good luck.

I know with the logs I have collected that if I soak them in hot water the water turns 'tea' coloured much faster than if I use hot water. YMMV Pies

Ahem!

I have used a container/sink and filled it with boiling water from the jug. It helps get the logs to sick much quicker. Also if the log is floating stick something heavey on it to hold it down. I change the water 1 or 2 times a day. My experance it takes about 4 days. Good luck Pies

Zeovit instructions say to do weekly water changes. Zeovit instructions reccomend using carbon and phosphate remover. So thats all cleared up and seems about right. Reef - I think your right about the other tanks. Their are a many featured tanks with great colour in their stoney corals. They are often have a light fish load, heavy skimming, phosphate removal resins, CA reactors and run their ALK high 9-10 or more. And I think your right, Zeovit does a similar thing, creating a nutrient poor invironment for the corals to thrive. The problem is that we all have higher fish stocking levels to achieve this any other way, I have some nice coloured Acropora, but I also have some brown ones. None I own have gone brown, but many have remained brown. Zeovit is interesting and I am keen to start it. Its not that expensive (less than $450 a year for a tank my size). And its sold as a 'system', proven to work (I have not seen ZEOVITNZs tank, but people I know have and said the coral colour was STUNNING, infact I know that 1 person NICKS after seeing the tank was so impressed he brought some Zeovit to get started straight away!). Reef - I don't belive the Zeovit puts a coating on the coral, its just enhancing the colour that is already there. Same as the other tanks you mentioned. One thing to remember with Zeovit is that it does take time, so saying that it can take up to 9 months for it to drag of the nutrients out of the water, rock and sand beds. There is also some speculation of Reefcentral that Zeovit may resolve 'old tank syndrome' as it leeches out the nutrients from the rock and sand, preventing them from every becomming supr saturated. Unconfirmed but does sound plausable. Anyone using Zeovit out there? If so I for one would love to hear what you think. Pieman

You may use this one:

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You say gimicky I say coooool! A lot of that stuff is aimed directly at keepers of reefs, I know many people using computers to monitor and control their tanks. I must admit I have looked VERY closely and a computer controller, but at over $650.00 US Dollars its been put on the back burner. Remember these systems replace all of your timer switches as well as read PH, TEMP & ORP. I want some!!!

I don't belive there is much technology behind skimmers, there is some 'fashon' but little technology. But if you do belive that there is some technology behind them, do what Reef did and copy someone elses design But serioulsy, if you look at my skimmer, a DelTec. Now DelTec have one of the best reputation for skimmers and are often only critised because of their cost. But there is NOTHING to it. Tube, Ehiem pump with stock needle wheel and air intake (can be purchased from ehiem nothing to do with DelTec) and a few elbows and 45s. Nothing special at all. The only bit that even looks like its custom made is the flange that connected the neck to the body. Everything else is just stock bits glued together. I don't think as much science goes into them as you think. There is no wind tunnel testing or anything else. I would love to make my own skimmer (I have some design theories), but there is one thing stoping me. I have no skill what so ever when it comes to DIY, I am about as 'manky' as they come IRA - you are correct, skimmers are way overpriced. Reef can supply some for VERY competitive prices but they still can't be considered cheap. BTW how is the Berlin going? Have you looked at buying another? Or building Pies

Layton - If you didn't pick it up, I was just teasing Reef, but nice of you to jump to his defence, are the 2 of you dating? But I will bite. The reason why I gave Reef a hard time is that he runs a business that sells different things for the aquairum hobby, including skimmers, so his advice should be considered in 'context'. I thought I should point out the contridiction in his own DIY skimmer and his comment to not use DIY for skimmers, you join the dots and let me know what you come up with... You have got to be kidding right? A skimmer is a plastic tube with a few pipes, simplicity itself (I have a DelTec skimmer - from Reef!!! and it couldn't be much simpler). If lighting is low tech, then skimmers are no tech (catchy and it rhymes). But you have just re-inforced my point, as did Reef. If you have the skills and tools (Varven said he is an "enthusiast") then DIY makes complete sense. Reefs skimmer - he has access to the means to do a good job and did so. The same with your lights & my Kalkwasser stirer. Hell, I even made my own tank (won't be doing that again!). There are others here too, Warren, who is contemplating a marine tank. He told me the only way he can afford to do marine/reef is do DIY all his equipment, and anyone who knows warren knows he is able to do a great job. If someone sais to Warren the only way you can get into this hobbie is to buy everything otherwise you will fail, then he won't even try. In Reefs defence he does bring in some top-notch equipment, and if you are in the market for high quality brand name equipment chances are Aquanet (Reefs business) can supply it and has had some practical experance with it. Lighting from my own experance. I was going to DIY my lights, but ended up buying a pre-made unit because it was only a few dollars more in the end. When/if I upgrade my lighting (more 250 watters, have decided that 400s not worth it) I am not sure if it will be 'store brought' or DIY. Pies

Hahahahaha I class it as a DIY skimmer. Does matter who made it, there is 'store brought' equipment (Tunze, Deltec etc) and DIY equipment, sorry Reef yours is DIY. Thats 1 of the 2 biggest advantages of DIY, a money saving (doesn't apply in this case) and customisation (which does apply). You had a skimmer made because you felt it was better than buying one. Hence you are saying that DIY is better than buying DelTec because you had a DelTec but felt that your DIY model was better. So there you have it, Reef gives DIY the thumbs up, and so do I. Now all we have to do it convice him to use NSW... Piemania

I know a few people on line who use Mangroves in their refugium. None of them have made any claims as to improvement but they are growing. One guy in .au uses them in an attempt to remove Nitrate, but he said it hasn't worked even though has has 6 plants growing well. He is going to keep them though. Good luck would love to know how you get on. Pies

Small tanks are 'HARD'. Larger tanks are easier. 30 inches by 15 inches by 15 inches is very small, but you mentioned a sump, this helps. I would strongly reccomend that a 3ft fish tank for a marine tank would be a minumum size for a first time tank owner, but I would go as big as you can. Same with sump, make it hold as much water as you can. Saltwater doesn't have to be any harder than freshwater, and its a GREAT hobby and IMO far more rewarding. However water chemistry needs much more attention than with freshwater. Good luck. Pieman