Ahhh yes well now I can see why some people get banned.

Just because some thing is used as an antibiotic does not mean it IS an antibiotic.

Gylceral trinitrate for example stops chest pain. In another life it blows stuff up

Digitalis kills things. Quckily. Looks nice. And is used daily by thousands of People to slow heart rates.

There is enough raw nicotine in a single cigerette to kill several people when put in solution yet still people put suicide by installment sticks in their mouths and light them.

Flagyl is an anti microbial agent that has an antibiotic effect and an anti flagylate action.

Primary use in Flagylates

Silver is made into a nice shiny thing yet it is also one of the most effective anti MICROBIAL agents know. Yet in any more than 1 part per million it comes out of concentration and can kill you...

Semanitics

Easy to cut and paste part of a conversation tho eh.

Navarre

What is your point? - I've never been banned. Have you? You made an erroneous and unhelpful blanket statement of absolutely no use to the person posting the question, then posted a bunch of quotes that undermined your own statement, now you want to argue semantics to save face? If you've got no advice on how to treat an Oscar with hole-in-the-head maybe you shouldn't be posting anything in this thread eh?

Ok, i have 50g of trace ele mix waiting to be sent to you. PM address

Advice was given.

At risk of disturbing thread further I withdraw.

easy to see why people leave

Apologies to original poster as I thought I was helping at least that was my intent.

May the rest of you rot slowly

Navarre

Ok, i have 50g of trace ele mix waiting to be sent to you. PM address

Thanks very much HaNs, I have PM'ed you

:evil: stop all these arguments!

we are here to help each other, and if we stuff up - big deal. we all make mistakes. that is how we learn.

this community needs people with knowledge - you 2 have knowledge, so hows about using it for good eh?

Most drugs used in fish keeping have more than one use but each generally has a prefered use.

Thanks To HaNs I now have 1kg of trace element mix.

I am not sure of its elemental make up (perhaps HaNs could post it here)

The next trick is to work out a dose rate per litre

I am open to suggestions. All I know is that it wont be much.

1kg?

thats a fair bit.

let us know how treatment goes. with that amount of trace, your plants will boom!

Decided to get 1kg coz it was cheap. not to mention the new 8 footer that is about to arrive that i intend to dose with trace element mix every water change a well as the oscar tank (5 ft)

I am not sure of its elemental make up (perhaps HaNs could post it here)

AFAIK 7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA

But ill double check in the morn

Thanks HaNs,

Please excuse my ignorance.

AFAIK ?? EDTA ?? DTPA ??

AFAIK - as far as i know.

EDTA as far as I know is a binding agent... course this is chemistry and there are a million names and acronym names that overlap.

DTPA is the conjugate base for EDTA. (acids have conjugate bases).

wiki (i know is not a reliable source) states that:

=wiki It is used as a soil extractant for available soil micronutrients like Zn, Fe, Cu and Mn at the pH of 7.3 with Calcium chloride and TEA

AFAIK - as far as i know.

EDTA as far as I know is a binding agent... course this is chemistry and there are a million names and acronym names that overlap.

DTPA is the conjugate base for EDTA. (acids have conjugate bases).

wiki (i know is not a reliable source) states that:

Now i'm on to it.

What you mean't to say was.

EDTA AFAIK is a binding agent

TEA??

erm... yes :lol:

i think.

TEA is an interesting compound now that i read more about it.

basically it is a K+ blocker. (potassium ion).

it can be used to alter a compound's solubility by displacing hard acids with this comparatively softer acid

says wiki. so it must be true :lol:

I think this is the bit that will help with the hole in the head thing... has something to do with neurons.. i can ask my mum for more info if you like. but there's a good chance I wont be able to explain it.

Thanks for the offer but I think that I am Bamboozled enough for one night.

I think I might just chuck half a teaspoon of the stuff in the tank and see what happens

:lol: OK then.

I'd wait till you get the correct dosages... or do you have them... if so what are they?

ps- dissolve it in water first.

ps- dissolve it in water first.

Id just chuck it in, it will disolve quickly

Remember to keep the mix in a dark dry place

Just get some in the water...

I dissolved a third of a teaspoon in a cup of warm water as an initial dose.

I wont add any more until I do water changes and have done some more research.

I will post updates if anything dramatic happens.

That stuff sounds like a good start, but I think you'll need more calcium available for uptake in your water to repair the damage that is already there (HITH is associated with de-calcification). If you don't want to buy Aqua-Dur etc you could just buy a two dollar cuttlefish from any petshop and throw it in the tank for now, or better still buy some JBL 'Calcil' turtle sticks, or Flukers Crickets - YUMMY! (they are gutloaded with Calcium) and feed them if you are worried about affecting your pH too much. Also, dont be alarmed if a blackish 'cobweb' begins to form around and over the holes - that is the first sign of skin tissue regeneration. Good luck

That stuff sounds like a good start, but I think you'll need more calcium available for uptake in your water to repair the damage that is already there (HITH is associated with de-calcification). If you don't want to buy Aqua-Dur etc you could just buy a two dollar cuttlefish from any petshop and throw it in the tank for now, or better still buy some JBL 'Calcil' turtle sticks, or Flukers Crickets - YUMMY! (they are gutloaded with Calcium) and feed them if you are worried about affecting your pH too much. Also, dont be alarmed if a blackish 'cobweb' begins to form around and over the holes - that is the first sign of skin tissue regeneration. Good luck

I added oyster shells and cuutlefish bone a few weeks ago when the syptoms first started to show. At the same time I also started to vary his diet including snails ( he spits out the crickets).

I have been adding trace element mix for about a week. ( about a pinch every water change)

Over the last few days black cobweb has started to form over the wounds.

It looks like we are on the right track.

I am hoping that we are well on the way to a natural remedy for HITH without the use of antibiotics and wormers.

Thank you all for your advise.

Updates to follow.

Thats great, did it start once the TE mix was added?

Thats great, did it start once the TE mix was added?

Yep. The signs of healing have only appreared since the TE mix has been added, I not not sure if it coincidence or a combination of treatments and time.

How are things progessing?

2 holes about finger nail size have now almost completely healed.

The largest hole about thumb nail size is just starting to heal.

He is now a lot more active and his appetite is back to ravenous instead of picky :bounce: :bounce:

Nice one