puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 I think I,ve got a case of Dinoflagellates going on. Thought it was a bit of cyno, but it is brown, gets worse throughout the day, and gets covered in bubbles. From what I can read its dinos. I had a recent drop in Alk and pH so i wonder if this has caused it. My nutrients are very low, unreadable on salifert test kits, I skim hard and wter change weekly. I need help with this one, as its spreading fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 It will be Cyano Shawn. 1ml of vodka per 100 litres for around 2-4 weeks and it should disappear. I will be surprised if it doesnt go after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Cyno would be good, easier to deal with, but it does sound like dinos. I forms strings with bubbles on it? I hope your right Cracker. Do you dose daily?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Cyano is my bet too. Bubbles are a good sign of cyano. Try the vodka as cracker suggests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 i would be a bit concerned at using vodka as a quick fix. i used it to get nitrates down, worjed sweet, but when i stopped cynao etc came back strong. try to work out what the cause could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 calcium reactors can be a good source for cyno as they can dump a lot of co2 in the tank which adds food for algae etc. Started to get cyno a few months ago as i was putting in way too much co2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 thats the hard one TM, never had any reading for nitrates, still don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 could well be it reef, as i have incresed the bubble rate recently to add extra alk. Should be able to wind it back now using saturated kalk for top up. At present just siphoning it off regularly, skimming hard and wet, and increased ph with kalk. Still not convinced it's cyno though, i've had that before and this is different, lots of trapped bubble in stringy brown slime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 take a pic? see if you can move some with a stick, should be able to see if it is flatworms. If flatworms could also be from to much co2 going in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 thats the hard one TM, never had any reading for nitrates, still don't. yip, i found and are still finding that the hard one. Maybe just let things be. Maybe you just stuffed up one day when doing a water change or adding something or playing with the reactor. are all the corals and fish happy, if yes then just leave it. thats what im doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 it's not flatworms, I'll go and take a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 calcium reactors can be a good source for cyno as they can dump a lot of co2 in the tank which adds food for algae etc. Started to get cyno a few months ago as i was putting in way too much co2. Not to mention the phosphate they continually supply (unless you use a fully synthetic media) Phosphate is the problem, nitrate is not as large a problem as people think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 photos, dont show how its stringy though, what do you think. TM, corals and fish doing great. Layton, phospahate unmeasurable on salifert (I know not good accuracy), don't run any phosphate removers though Between yellow polyps on cable on pump, hard to see but the bubbles are on fine 1 - 1.5cm stringy slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Looking at the areas where the bubbles are. The problem will be a buildup of detritus trapped in and around the polyps, in the branching coralline on the stream cable, and the top of the stream. These are all places where detritus tends to build up. More than likely this is what's fuelling it. Don't worry about phosphate tests, they can only tell you how bad the water is. Bump up the flow in those areas and it will more than likely disappear. If the algae is soft it's a phosphate issue, if it's crunchy then it will be more of problem to erradicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Just run the vodka while you are thinking about the cause at this stage. If it doesnt fix it it certainly wont harm anything. If it is it will prevent any further issues and help. 1 ml per 100 litres; i.e 1000litre tank = 10 ml. Therefore 5 ml morning, 5 ml night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 already stacks of flow Layton, not sure I could run more. The areas in the photos were vacuumed clean yesterday, and its back in a day, quicker even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 vacuum isn't powerful enough, you need to blast it with a power head until no more detritus comes out, and then keep it clean and it should disappear given time. It won't disappear over night if it's nutrient source is in the rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Puttputt since you are dosing kalk, one thing to consider, if you are not doing it already, would be to add some vinegar to the kalk. This adds a carbon source for bacteria and has a somewhat similar effect to vodka. I have used this several times on some rather dirty poorly skimmed tanks, overgrown with algae etc. The effect was not immediate but after a few weeks the tanks began to clean up eventually becoming completely algae & dino free, and crisp & clean looking. Has worked every time I've done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Still think it is excess co2 causing problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes Co2 especially at this time of year. I'm thinking of piping in some outside air to my skimmer my wife keeps going around closing all the windows. Spouses just don't understand why they should freeze on cold days so the tank can dissipate enough Co2! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 I like your style wasp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 i would agree with layton. i had that same sort of stuff. mainly down in gaps between rocks and places with little flow. how old are the rocks? added a couple of streams and that helped heaps. still have the odd patch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 i got the same bubbles, but no signs of cyano (which looks similar to the photo's you have) my co2 rate is high too but its dripping straight onto the water surface which is exceptionally well aerated (where the sump, fuge and skimmer all enter the sump) so i dont think its c02. i get it mainly around the bottom of my streams and under the closed loop pipes. none on the rocks though and no stringy threads of slime which is typical of cyano. maybe just a minor case of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 My rocks are good. One side is 15 month old, and one side is 6months old. The newer rocks were cooked, and the tank has never had high nutrients, or any sand bed, even when i had a ssb it was not around of under the rocks. I have some slime of a solid peice of limestone, non porous and certainly in high flow. Layton, it's not a rock issue. TM, aready a lot of flow, anymore and the water would have trouble staying in the tank. Have dropped back the CO2, and started dosing Kalk last week, so will see what happens. May try vodka??, or vinegar, not sure, will read up on it's effects. thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Layton, it's not a rock issue. I wouldn't be so sure about that. While on the whole the rock may be good, if there has been detritus gather in particular spots of rock, then it can affect that particular part of the rock which explains why this stuff shows up in patches. Ultimately there is a phosphate source fuelling this. Find it and reduce it. Vodka / vinegar etc, may show more immediate effects but it doesn't necessarily get rid of the problem depending what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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