Phosphates

[pacific blue]

Any tips on reducing phosphates quickly? having real big problems with algae. does a protien skimmer help reduce phosphate?

[reef]

what is the po4 reading on a test kit

[lduncan]

does a protien skimmer help reduce phosphate?

It's the best way. Dealing with phosphate problems come down to keeping the tank clean. Keep the sand clean and water clean and it won't be an issue.

You can mask the problem by using products like chemical phosphate removers, but the issues comes down to removing detritus and keeping stuff clean.

Layton

[wasp]

The crud the skimmer removes contains phosphate, therefore the skimmer removes phosphate.

In fact, if you can, have a look at a tank with a skimmer. Imagine all the crud in the collection cup being poured back into the tank, and becoming fuel for algae growth! Seeing it like that can help you make the decision to get a skimmer. They are not cheap, but are a great asset to a tank. IMO the most efficient skimmers are the needlewheel ones, although some get good results with other types also.

[JDM]

ROWAphos has done wonders for me.

[lduncan]

but does it really fix the phosphate problem, or does it just mask it?

[JDM]

i sort of agree with you, it will not really fix the cause but it will remove the phosphates, it will remove them quickly, them remove the cause.

[KP]

I theory if you are not still adding phosphates, wouldn't it be getting lower with phosphate removers

[pacific blue]

the reading for the test is off the chart. over 10.0ppm. its really out of control. i have some green-x in the sump, its supposed to remove nitrite nitrate and phosphate. isnt really doing the job though

[wasp]

That reading is HUGE, are you sure you did the test correctly?

What brand of kit did you use?

[tel]

i would use greenx to stop draughts under the cat door. id go a few big water changes, use a good po4 remover, carbon, check my fresh topup po4 and then look to the cause?

[wasp]

Also, could you post a pic or 2 of the tank? This will help also by showing us equipment used, and a lot of other useful info.

[reef]

10ppm. at that rate you will have to change water and get it down to a acceptable amount, Then add a po4 remover.

Main problem with iron po4 removers is that they also remove organics thus cleaning your water, which is a good thing however you corals get nuked from the extra light they get once the water has cleared. also make sure that you add buffer to the water as they also tend to drop kh .

pretty hard to keep po4 down if you have a high tank load like me, so po4 removers are the way to go.

[pacific blue]

yep i did it right, if you saw the amount of alge in the tank ud belive me. its aquarium pharmacuticals. haha ok ill use gren-x for that then. i think the fact that i have a skimmer suitibal for a 200l tank on my 1500l set up might have something to do with it!!!

[reef]

Pics??

[pacific blue]

pics of what? i just ripped most of the alge out so the corals could be seen agen.

[wasp]

Yes I'll agree, ANY amount of phosphate can be removed with a phosphate remover such as Rowaphos, provided enough is used. But if that test is genuine he will need to spend a LOT of money on Rowaphos. I think it would be a better long term plan to get a quality skimmer, for a start. Then we need to look at the whole management there is likely several problems. Once Phosphate is down to reasonable levels Rowaphos becomes more economical, just as a backup.

[reef]

Just wanted to see the tank to see what else can be done, I would say you nitrate would also be quite high.

[lduncan]

I theory if you are not still adding phosphates, wouldn't it be getting lower with phosphate removers

First these removers are only really effective in removing certain forms of phosphate efficiently - inorganic phosphate.

And remember that hobby test kits are only capable of measuring orthophosphates (inorganic phosphate).

What happens when you add inorganic phosphate to a clean tank? Well the multitude of bacteria and phyto and organisms sequester it and convert it to organic phosphate (polyphosphate and other organically chelated forms).

They'll happily do this until the organisms in the tank are saturated with phosphate. Once this happens you will notice orthophosphate hanging around longer, as the bioload has reached it's phosphate holding limit, and that's when you'll get phosphorous showing up on test kits.

So now you have all this phyto and bacteria jam packed full of phosphate floating in the water, and attached to every surface in the tank. Then you add a chemical remover which is only really effective in removing the overflow of phosphate once saturation has been reached. So instead of spending money on chemical absorbers, what if you got a bigger or more efficient skimmer? That way you could remove more of this phosphate ladened phyto and bacteria faster, and target the whole problem. Think of it like draining a septic tank, as opposed to dealing with the overflow once it fills up.

Of course then there's the iron in those chemical phosphate removers. But that's another story. ;-)

Layton

[wasp]

pics of what? i just ripped most of the alge out so the corals could be seen agen.

Many things can contribute to these problems. Flow, sandbed, allsorts. A pic of the whole tank would be useful.

Small skimmer? Don't worry that's what many including myself do when starting, it is hard to bite the bullet & spend the $$ for a good one. But remember once purchased a good one will last you for life.

If you get a super powerful skimmer, you can probably kiss goodbye to 1/2 the problem at a minimum.

[reef]

Not matter how big your skimmer it will not remove all po4.

I doubt there is another way to remove po4 effectively as iron po4 remover or I would be using something else.

I really battle to keep it down below .02ppm. reduce my fish numbers and then no problems, but what fun would that be.

[pacific blue]

yea i think a skimmer is the best option. il try get some photos up. whats a good level for phosphates?

[reef]

what corals are you keeping? if sps then below .03ppm.

nitrate below 5ppm

[lduncan]

Not matter how big your skimmer it will not remove all po4.

I doubt there is another way to remove po4 effectively as iron po4 remover or I would be using something else.

I really battle to keep it down below .02ppm. reduce my fish numbers and then no problems, but what fun would that be.

I would dispute that. A skimmer is capable of removing more phosphate than any iron based remover is capable of. I've never had any real phosphate issues with my tank, and i've never used any chemical based phosphate remover. My phosphate has been below 0.015 on Salifert test, and usually completely undetectable, for all but a few of weeks ever since my tank has been running. All that using nothing but a skimmer. And I feed a lot.

What's a good phosphate level? Completely undetectable is good. Some corals are better able to cope with high phosphates than others, but aim for undetectable. You're not going to kill a coral from lack of phosphate in a tank, as there are so many sources of it, and very little is required for growth.

[reef]

my skimmer is well, oversize for my tank and still have po4 problems.

Maybe i need a queen protein skimmer