chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 who said this hobby is cheap? clearly no one who has ever owned a reef tank 8) im going to be upgrading my lighting yet again i've tried all types of combinations, each time I find the more light I add the better the corals colour up. if i look at some really good reef tanks around (pies, reefs, crackers for example) what do they all have in common? (other than stability in terms of water parameters) awesome lighting. just out of interest, heres a summary of the lighting i've been through and am going to now!!! (incidentally, its also like a short term investment for the tank upgrade later next year) Initially... 500W (2 x 250W halides) Tried to spread the light more evenly by going... 450W (3 x 150W halides) Supplemented this with T5's... (current configuration) 666W (3 x 150W halides + 4 x 54W T5's) Due to limited budget right now, upgrading to 400W with luminarc... 808W (2 x 150W halides, 1 x 400W halide with luminarc, 2 x 54W T5's) Finally, I'm wanting to be at this... 1308W (3 x 400W halides with luminarc, 2 x 54W T5 actinics) Hmmm, eventually some intense lighting but Im taking recommendations from others here plus based on progress I am seeing in my tank over the months. Power bill? Yeah well, costly but not excessive. I estimate lighting power cost a year at approx $0.11 Kwh at 10 hours a day to be about $900 a year!!! ($525 a year in power costs + bulb replacements) Not cheap, but then again, its all part of the hobby :-? Interested in others feedback on this, your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Interested in others feedback on this, your thoughts? Buy shares in your power company??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 hell of a lot of light Chimera. 3 X 400 w on a tank your size - wow. Hasn't reef changed back down from 400w to 250w recently?? Alot of people have good colour, I am getting there as well, with alot less lighting. In fact reading some threads on reef central, there are colourful tanks using just T5s, and more colourful tanks with MH running for just 3 or 4 hrs. just a thought, ever thought of letting your tank settle on one change before rushing off and changing things again. Maybe your acros never get a chance to adjust to any one parameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Its about what you need really. You could get away with 250 watt 14k if you are 600 deep. Anthing over 600 and you should go 400watt. If you want well priced systems, give me a holla dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I agree with cracker, 400's are overkill on anything up to 600 deep. $0.11 kWhr is pretty cheap! $0.17 to $0.22 down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 puttputt, i do let things settle for several months before changing. in fact, I've been in this hobby now for 2 years. for the first year, granted I was learning alot and not expecting to see many changes (had very few sps in fact). of course, still learning but in the last year, i've done things in pretty much 3 month intervals - in other words make a change and leave it for a few months and see the result. the biggest improvement(s) were probably stability in terms of water chemistry and adding more lighting. i noticed the T5's certainly made an improvement, but that improvement changed in perhaps the first week or two but no improvement from that in the last month. i still do have shaded areas in my tank and several sps are just getting completely inadequate lighting - this shows very specifically especially those corals that are half under light and half in shade (clearly those under light are showing good signs whereas the shaded side shows nothing) I think the lighting upgrade is perhaps more so for the reflectors than the wattage as the reflectors cover a greater surface area. the current 150W'ers, while they are good, they dont cover a great deal of area compared to the luminarcs. The 250W vs 400W is based on future proofing myself. In other words, the new tank will be 700 deep so that extra intensity should help. I could (and am considering) still going with a 400W in the centre and 250W'ers on the outsides - however I dont want to get to a stage where the 250W just isnt quite enough then have to upgrade yet again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 how do u get power for 11c kw???? I pay 19c kw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 fair points Chim, but 3 months isn't a long time in reefing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Alot of people have good colour, I am getting there as well, with alot less lighting. In fact reading some threads on reef central, there are colourful tanks using just T5s, and more colourful tanks with MH running for just 3 or 4 hrs yes i am aware of this. im also aware of the upgrade im planning next year. fair points Chim, but 3 months isn't a long time in reefing. yes, a very valid point. im going by the fact that its obvious zoox need light for photsynthesis. im also aware that zooxanthellae can do a very good job at adjusting to what they need. however after reading more and more books, the point that comes across more often than not is that lighting is one of the most important areas in reef keeping but always the one area that is most overlooked (or left til last when the budget just cant afford :lol: ) i do agree, i lose more and more patience the further i get in this hobby but im not one to give up easily 8) i've invested a reasonable amount of money into this hobby as well, probably more than most and i'll be the first to admit i've learnt more by my mistakes financially than probably anyone else. but if you enjoy something, money should not be an obstical (within reason) not that im too worried because as i say i do enjoy the hobby alot and expect to be in it for years to come. perhaps a small investment if considered over 10+years or more all in all, I know experimenting is an expensive way to learn but, i dont think its alot of money down the drain as long as you can resell (albeit less than what i paid for it ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 And chimera, it wasn't a criticism, just a observation. Some of us have been in this hobby for alot longer than 2 years. Time on this board isn't a indication of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Where the hell did the rats come from :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 sometimes i feel like a lab rat And chimera, it wasn't a criticism, just a observation. Some of us have been in this hobby for alot longer than 2 years. Time on this board isn't a indication of experience. it never was taken as criticism, in fact i take very little as criticism from this forum i take it all as positive feedback experience counts for more than anything in this hobby. perhaps im just a slow learner puttputt, what lighting are you running out of curiosity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 What colour temperature were you using? or planning to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 arcadia series 3 - triple, original 250w DE 14k arcadia bulbs. Bulbs now 11 months old and looking for replacements. Want something slightly bluer than these, although the corals like them. Not prepared to pay $250each though (sorry Fay ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 and i seem to recall your reflectors being quite large? i think thats most defiantely where im lacking, not necessarily wattage but coverage. directly under my 150's the corals are excellent, colouring up nicely. everywhere else they are crap! it seems pointless to let that extra wattage go to waste when you can use decent reflectors to direct that otherwise lost light down into the tank. KP, probably a mixture, but for starters will try either a 14K or 20K in the middle. corals prefer the white/blue light spectrum, even though 10K's seem to give better growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The same 14k that Pies uses Narva! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I went & checked out those reflector thingys at Steves place last night, and must say they are truely awesome. The increase in light over his tank is very noticeable. As I'm trying to keep the power bill down they are the way to go, more light into the tank per $ worth of electricity. Unfortunately my budget is all blown out at the moment following paying for my sons wedding, and a series of unexpected big expenses. Nonetheless, long term, it's the plan. Just as an aside, while I was at Steves I borrowed his fish trap to get a tang I've spent a couple of weeks trying to catch. Awesome! No kidding, I had him literally within a minute of putting the trap in & baiting it. So easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 fair points Chim, but 3 months isn't a long time in reefing. 3 months to me is heaps in reefing.. I can do heaps to my tank in 3 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 1 x 400W with luminarc installed in the centre tonight. had to take T5's off to make it fit, i can just squeeze in a T5 at either end although one will now have to be a 3 foot T5 coz the seaswirl is in the way. in fact, if i get another luminarc for the right side the sea swirl im gonna have to do some mod's to it and mount it back further otherwise it wont fit! intensity wise, the 400W is not as good as i thought, however its only been on an hour and halides do take a little while for full effect. coverage is insane though, no shaded spots at all in the centre! i've definately made up my mind on going another 2 of these now, i can even see colour in acro's i've never seen before purely brought out by the light. watch this space! (anyone got a large amount of cash to give away? :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 arcadia series 3 - triple, original 250w DE 14k arcadia bulbs. puttputt, what are the dimensions of your tank and are there any reso current pics on here? curious as ive got the 2x250w arcadia on a 1500 x600 deep. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 i think his tank is similar to crackers, about 2.1m long and 700 front/back and 650 deep?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Is it true that the 400W SE are approximately the same as 250W DE driven by HQI ballasts as far as intensity goes? It probably depends on the bulb make and color, but are there at least some that fit this criteria? I've heard people say this from time to time, but wondered what are people's thoughts from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 That has been often said on sites such as Reef Central. Even among same brand bulbs, the light increase does not increase in direct proportion with wattage increase, rather, the extra watts give a gradually diminishing increase in light as you move up. It is also generally accepted that double ended give more light than the same watt single ended, although as you correctly state this will obviously vary if comparing one brand to another. The thing with Steves reflectors, they are designed for a single ended bulb. I eyeballed it up trying to figure out how to set it up with a double ended one, or two, but it would be pretty hard the bulb cannot just be stuck in there, it is also a case that the evenness of the reflection would be different due to the different size of the bulb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 I would have thought reefs and crackers tanks looked good because of their constant parameters(cal, alk etc) rather than their lighting, both their tanks are about the same size and have different amounts of lighting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 The thing with Steves reflectors, they are designed for a single ended bulb. I eyeballed it up trying to figure out how to set it up with a double ended one, or two, but it would be pretty hard the bulb cannot just be stuck in there, it is also a case that the evenness of the reflection would be different due to the different size of the bulb. I agree that they are not designed for DE bulbs. In fact, Luminarc is supposedly creating an optimal configuration for DE. However, I am using (as well as TM and many on Reef Central) the same design (or rather very similar) as those offered by Steve for 250W DE bulbs. I think they work great. You get the benefit of the awesome spread and the lower electricity consumption. Maybe TM can chime in here on his opinions of the 250W DE bulbs with this reflector as well. Chimera's move to the 400W SE bulbs motivated my original question regarding intensity between 250DE vs 400SE. If there are some bulbs that are in fact the same in intensity, then using these reflectors with 250W DE bulbs may be a good option for those with 2 foot deep (or less) tanks. I certainly want to save as much money on power as possible as well!! On my 5x2x2 (setup very similar to Chimera's), I have three 250W XM DE 10K with these DIY Luminarc reflectors and supplement with two Actinic and two 10K four foot T5's. I find that provides heaps of well dispersed light and nice combination of color. (the color factor is obviously personal preference ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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