Breeding cleaner shrimp

[Feelers]

Well, I think I wanna try my hand at breeding cleaner shrimp, and was wanting some thoughts.

I was thinking a setup specific for a breeding pair, which means I wont have to worry about the eggs being eaten or sucked up into the sump ect.

I want to setup a phytoplankton culture, and in turn culture rotifers. Do you guys know of any good links on either of these ? Definately wanna go diy with eveything, it should be an interesting experiment.

I dont really expect to successfully raise any shrimp, but I wont know if I dont try, and it'll be some good experience.

So what size tank do you guys think will be good for the parents? How succeptable to water parameters are these guys? Do you need to worry about alk, ect? I was thinking I could use my weipro skimmer, so that should keep their tank clean and oxygenated. I have a 90L tank that was gonna be my sump for the coldwater tank, but I upgraded, so do guys think that will be big enough? ( I'll be taking the eggs out and raising them in another tank.)

Any tips would be appreciated.

[wasp]

A 90 litre tank will be fine, and any 2 shrimps will do as they are hermaphrodites. Mating takes place the same night they moult, which is every few weeks depending on several factors.

Getting them to breed is no worries the average cleaner shrimp is carrying eggs a lot of the time. Raising the larvae is the hard part it has been done in captivity but extremely difficult.

[Pies]

I think your chances of success are about 0, or maybee worse.

www.reefcentral.com has all your shrimp breeding needs. But here is some stuff to consider, they will not be of a saleable size for about 18 months. They are small and will eventually move onto phyto and rotifers very late in their planktonic stage. This means stocking the tank with the correct HUFA enriched foods and algae for approx 15 months.

And thats just from what I can remember from reading about it a while back.

If you MUST breed, and it is to be encouraged why not try clownfish or cardinals. Both are considered very easy by marine standards. If you are successfull you could try something more difficult. However have you noticed the shortage of captive bred clowns and bangaii in NZ? No me neither, need me to spell out why?

Hope that helps.

Pie

[reef]

i would try something like clowns etc, the shrimps are not easy.

[wasp]

Agree with Pies.

I think most new hobbyists, including myself, go through 3 stages :-

1. Wanting to breed clownfish

2. Wanting to breed cleaner shrimps

3. Realising this will be near enough impossible & giving up.

Having said that I have been able to syphon some baby clowns out of my sump & keep them alive for a few days, if we had a steady supply of rotifers in NZ I think with a little care they could be raised.

I do know 2 people in NZ who have raised baby clowns.

[lduncan]

I had some success with one batch of bangaiis 3 or 4 years ago, but haven't been able to get hold of a pair since. I have 3 royal dottybacks which spawn regularly. Just too much time and effort to raise them.

Breeding shrimp, even just out of interest would be cool, as long as you realise you have virtually no chance of them making it through the metamorphic changes. Seen that you're studying bio, you should have access to microscopes and stuff which would make it a bit more interesting than to most of us here.

Layton

[Feelers]

Some good suggestions, I have looked a little further into the shrimp thing, and the accounts that I read had some things that I wouldnt have done myself.

Thanks for the ideas, it does make more sense with the fish, so thats what I'll swap the plan around to now.

Are both fish a similar leval of difficulty? Would I be best off with the cardinals? Reef how did your baby bangais go?

I get on really well with my marine bio lecturer - I think that I maybe able to source rotifers from there.

On the probable failure thing, yeah I know my chances arent good. However, aquaculturing is my intended career path, and at least I'll learn some things along the way. Long term, mimic octopus rearing is something I would love to do (an "impossibility" at this stage)

However have you noticed the shortage of captive bred clowns and bangaii in NZ? No me neither, need me to spell out why?

Ummm unfortunately I do :oops: , as a geuss is it because there are so many cheap wild-caught ones around?

What would the minimum tank size be for say for a happy pair of bangias?

I want a real challenge, and this seems to be a good one!!! I will also have access through the uni to all the papers on the subject, so there might be some useful info somewhere out there.

Perhaps I could convince my lecturer to give me a hand. Man would that be sweet!!!

[lduncan]

Bangaii's are by far the easiest, mainly because you don't have to have rotifers to raise them.

However, you may have a problem sourcing a pair. Over the last couple of years, imported bangaiis have had massive mortality rates. They use to be pretty bullet proof (like damsels), but now they seem to die off after about 2 to 4 weeks. I know of three different importers who pretty much report exactly the same thing happening.

It's unknown what the problem really is, but it's most likely related to collection and handling procedures pre export from indo.

You may be better off going with clowns, as they are easily sexed, and spawn without any trouble, raising the fry required phyto and rotifers however.

Layton

[reef]

The banggai are too easy , not much of a challenge, i have 100 and they are still breeding, the main problem is making time to look after them.

There will be many local breed banggais soon,

I would try the clowns, percs or occelaris. , what about mandrine fish, they will be cool to breed.

[lduncan]

Yeah, mandarin fish would be interesting.

They are easy to sex, and apparently spawn relatively easily. Don't know much about the fry, how small they are, whether they have a pelagic larval stage or not. May be worth looking into.

Or maybe some other type of cardinal, like long spine's or those ugly pyjama ones.

Layton

[Jimmy]

i have a tank breed clown fish in my tank. Still alive and doing good. I will post some pics when someone comes over.

[chimera]

you got any update pic's on the bangaiis reef? that was a really interesting topic, very cool to see the progress

[Pies]

There was an article in Coral magizine recently about breeding Mandarins. Its possible, but like shrimp etc very challenging.

Clowns would be cool, i'd love to do it, but a source of rotifers is a challenge, and the time involved to keep the food source going makes in a MAJOR undertaking.

There are other cardinals, like the pajamas which would be nice too. You can feed them on brine shrimp which is a lot easier than making cultures of other foods.

Good luck.

[Feelers]

For a pair mandarins though I'd need a massive tank(so they can feed themselves) wouldnt I?

I'll send an email and see about the rotifers.

When using brineshrimp are they enriched? Ie letting them soak up cyclopeeze or something before feeding?

The guy who trying to breed fire shrimp used straight brineshrimp, which seemed a weird way to do it.

[Ira]

They say a 200L with heaps of liverock should be fine for 1 mandarin. So say for a pair you'd want 400L+ a large sump full of liverock+a refugium and they should have heaps of food.

[wasp]

Here's some info (basic) on marine fish breeding http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/ ... marine.php

[Feelers]

Well been doing a lot of reading.... Found one guy who successfully raised (well up untill the point where they are likely to survive) maroon clowns. He tried 3 times, and failed, but on each instance the food he used wasnt the best. On the 4th attempt ~50 survived, (with the "proper" food)

I think the key to raising the fry is to have a reliable source of phytoplankton and rotifers(the hard part). From what I can see, growing pyto and rotifers is "easy", but having them available when you need them and not having crashes ect requires a lot of pre planning, and a lot of time.

I asked my Marine lecturer about any help - and the uni doesnt grow phyto or anything! I may be able to ask my microbio lecturer for a starter culture of phyto, but thats probably as good as it will get. I'll see if I can grow 2 different species, which apparantly improves survival of the fry. I dunno where to get the rotifers - I was told if I go out with a plankton net and a microscope I can seperate some out.

I think I'll have some practice at growing the phyto and rots, and try to get a good system down. I think I'd lke to have 2 seperate batches of rots, incase one of the cutlures dies I'd have a back up.

Pies didnt you have a go at rotifers before? Where were your original cultures from?

[Pies]

You need to use the right type of phyto, HUFA enriched. You can get away with not using Phyto and buy rotifer culture foods with HUFA enrichment, more expensive but a lot easier.

Rotifers are around, i was sent some but had little success. My biggest problem was an underestimate of time required to do it, I am a busy man and I don't have the time.

Reef was advertising he had rotifers, as do a few others. Good luck, I hope you get further than I did.

Pie

[Feelers]

Yeah the plan would be to grow one phyto high in Hufa - N. Oculata, and one high in DHA - Isochrysis galbana.

I dont know if I have the luxury of choosing what species to grow, but the uni may have these on hand.

What's the deal with water changes and filtration in the fry tank? And an air bubbler? Do you want big fat bubbles or fine ones?

[Feelers]

Found a really good article suggested by one of the breeder guys - for some reason its from the United Nations.

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3 ... m#Contents

Huge amount of info.

[WEKA]

Thats a great site Feelers - Thanks

[Chikan]

Got that book on borrow at work. I think it was a book was produced by the United Nations for countries to use in setting up aquaculture. Good informaton.

[Feelers]

Can you guys give me the rough price I'd be looking at for a pair of these types of clowns?

Maroons (Premnas biaculeatus)

Percula Clownfish (Amphiprion percula)

Ocellaris Clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris)

Are there any others that are easy to get? At this point I think maroons would be my choice.

[reef]

$60-$80

I think maroons are hard to breed

[Feelers]

The tank I have available for a breeding pair of percula clowns is 66x45(high)x30 = 90L

It does seem a little thin to me, but I'm gonna see how it goes. I'll have the weirpro running 24/7, but how much live rock do you think I'll need? Can I just run a cannister on the tank instead?

Theres gonna be nothing else in the tank appart from the heater and a cheap fake anemone for them to live in.