customer service???

[JoeBlog]

I had a bad experience at a LFS today and I just wanted to check in with the rest of the marine community to see what they expect in terms of service from their own LFS. Also, I know that there are LFS owners and employees that read these threads and would like to hear their input as well.

So, here is a scenario. If you were to buy a fish from your LFS and for whatever reason, the fish does not work out in your system, e.g. fights with current tank mates, turns out to be an avid coral muncher, or whatever. How would you expect your LFS to handle the situation, i.e. say it is your problem now since you made the purchase, accept the return for full refund, accept the return for full store credit, accept the return for store credit with an additional handling charge, etc…? Let’s further assume that the purchaser is not a newbie and makes an educated purchase, but the fish turns out to be an outlier in behavior, e.g. a yellow tang that eats coral, which is certainly not expected. (This is not the example from my situation, but good for discussion.)

[Pies]

The behavior of most fish is well documented, and you often read that 'most' are ok but the ocasional one are bad.

I don't think the shop has any responsibility other than to sell you a healthy animal with good long term life prospects. I wouldn't expect them to have refund any money. And as the SPCA add's say don't buy an animal unless you are prepared to look after it.

So as long as the fish is healthy, the shop has done their bit. And I am not saying shops shouldn't consider taking a fish back for store credit or whatever is amicable to both parties (e.g. the yellow tang example would surly be and example of a fish easy to on-sell etc) but we shouldn't expect it.

They shop also has the added risk of not knowing the home from which the fish came. So if they agree to take it back, and it dies before its re-sold will you refund the shop? If not, why should they take the risk?

Pie

[suphew]

Don't you have a 14 day right of return always anyway? But besides that I think it would be a pretty stupid shop that wouldn't take a fish back so long as it was still healthy, would be a little bit different if say it got white spot in your tank and was on it's last legs. The shop has got to know that you're likely to spend more in the future, but have choices about where you spend it.

[suphew]

Haha already two opposite points of view, and both of us from an area with no marine shops anyway!

[chimera]

if the above is not your circumstances and only an example, im intrigued to know what actually did happen?

i have had bad service and I have had good service. i have no problem stating who because it was only in my case, others might have found the opposite service. the service was not poor as such, more so the specific employee (at hff) i dealt with i found very rude. the good service i received (a couple of times at jansens) again was specific to the emloyee that served me (rather than a "company policy" type situation such as a refund on a bad purchase) the guy (on both occasions) was very helpful and keen to offer advice, even backing himself up saying the advice is from personal experience and i might find others may offer an alternative solution. no it wasnt you ben, but im sure you would be helpful too

i think you have to be careful not to fully judge a shops service if its based on a single employee. if the service is based on "store policy" it is a different story of course. i think the lfs should be quite clear on stating purchases, such as marine fish and their compatibility, to any purchaser regardless of their 'experience' in the hobby. even so, the hobbyist should be careful with their purchase before pulling out their wallet

[JoeBlog]

i think you have to be careful not to fully judge a shops service if its based on a single employee. if the service is based on "store policy" it is a different story of course. i think the lfs should be quite clear on stating purchases, such as marine fish and their compatibility, to any purchaser regardless of their 'experience' in the hobby. even so, the hobbyist should be careful with their purchase before pulling out their wallet

This was coming from the owner, so I would imagine store policy. I am also a very long term customer who has spent spent 1000's with them (as all you can imagine) and I have even taken my own time and effort to get them product from Marine Depot since they couldn't source it themselves at a "decent" price (all of which I charged no "service fee" and they only paid the cost from MD).

There was also an instance the other day when another (I would consider) newbie customer was asking for advice on whether to get a fish or not. I was standing there and warned against the possible agression of this fish (which is well documented) and I also experienced it in my tank. The store keep explicitly said that if there is a problem, bring it back.

The example that I present originally in this post is one in which the behavior of the fish is out of the norm, so not the ignorance of the purchaser.

[alanmin4304]

I wouldn't expect a shop to take it back. They don't know where it has been and to treat it properly they would need to quaranteen it again. Not a lot of profit or good will if they sold it to someone else and it died along with all there other fish. Perisable goods.

[JoeBlog]

I wouldn't expect a shop to take it back. They don't know where it has been and to treat it properly they would need to quaranteen it again. Not a lot of profit or good will if they sold it to someone else and it died along with all there other fish. Perisable goods.

OK, lets add to the equation that it comes from a very long term customer that has probably more knowledge about marines than the owner (at least current knowledge from this decade). He asks my advice quite often on SPS. Therefore, it can be assume that the fish is in the same condition as that purchased, less than 48 hours prior.

[chimera]

did they give you a reason why they would not accept it back or swap for another? sounds like they know its behaviour and just wanted to get rid of it!!! :lol:

[JoeBlog]

did they give you a reason why they would not accept it back or swap for another? sounds like they know its behaviour and just wanted to get rid of it!!! :lol:

He said that they are not in the business of selling and taking back fish. Mind you that all I wanted was store credit. I was still going to spend the money there as I have for YEARS, and heaps of it.

[JoeBlog]

sounds like they know its behaviour and just wanted to get rid of it!!! :lol:

It wasn't like this at all. I don't think that they mean any harm in any fish that they sell. I just think that their service to a long term customer SUCKS!! Needless to say, I won't spend another cent in that shop!!

I just wanted to see what other people think, expect and their experiences.

[Jimmy]

He said that they are not in the business of selling and taking back fish

If you are a long term customer or not if he says that and you dont like that go somewere else.

[JoeBlog]

If you are a long term customer or not if he says that and you dont like that go somewere else.

Which is exactly what I told him, with a few more colorful words thrown in.

[cookie extreme]

go and spend your money at another LFS (if possible) and pop back in a year to say hi!

[Feelers]

Dealing with livestock is obviously pretty difficult when talking about return policys.

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/cons ... funds.html

From what I can figure, fish and livestock are covered, however I couldnt specifically find it listed. The consumer law is VERY strong here, to make sure that people who genuinely have a complaint are legally entitled to a refund.

you told the seller what you wanted to use the goods for and relied on their knowledge but the goods don't do the job

I think that the store should have an official (written on the wall) policy when selling things like fish to deal with this sort of problem, as its obviously a pretty common situation. I aslo think there is some responsibility on the buyers behalf to make sure they know what that policy is.

I think you are legally entitled to a refund(however it depends on whether the fish is considered "faulty"), but you will know if thats fair or not. I think store credit would be a good compromise. I would point out that it's the shops fault for not having a return policy, and not explaining it to you when you bought it. Thats why in this case I think the rap lies with them. 8)

And especially with a long term cutomer, honestly that's stupid. It doesnt even make commercial sense, let alone ethical.

[JoeBlog]

go and spend your money at another LFS (if possible) and pop back in a year to say hi!

Nice! The ol' "Pretty Woman" trick.

[Feelers]

Haha, I'm actually trying to get a partime job at Organism in Chch, so it'l be funny to see the other side of the equation.

[JoeBlog]

Haha, I'm actually trying to get a partime job at Organism in Chch, so it'l be funny to see the other side of the equation.

Wow, that is interesting. I didn't think those guys worked much as it is.

I've bought quite a few things from John and Toby (Organisms) as well over the years. Their service is WAY better than what I've been given today.

[Feelers]

For some reason they arent open on tuesday, but on all other days. Its a small store, but I was really impressed with the quality of the tanks. Its just up the road from me, so it would be perfect. Staff discount on a chiller would be great

[rossco]

For my tuppence worth...I think you would be pushing the proverbial uphill to demonstrate that the goods (fish) was faulty which is the only real circumstance to demand a refund.

Most of our purchases are designed for an implicit (if not explicit) purpose so its relatively easily to determine if it fulfills that purpose or not. What is the purpose of a fish??? Its a living animal by its very nature having a wide range of behaviours.

The only way to give ourselves some sort of comeback is to ask the retailer for an explicit guarantee eg this little critter won't eat your corals - guaranteed.

Its circumstances like these that really test the customer service attitude of the retailer.

[JoeBlog]

Dealing with livestock is obviously pretty difficult when talking about return policys.

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/cons ... funds.html

From what I can figure, fish and livestock are covered, however I couldnt specifically find it listed. The consumer law is VERY strong here, to make sure that people who genuinely have a complaint are legally entitled to a refund.

I think you are legally entitled to a refund(however it depends on whether the fish is considered "faulty"), but you will know if thats fair or not. I think store credit would be a good compromise. I would point out that it's the shops fault for not having a return policy, and not explaining it to you when you bought it. Thats why in this case I think the rap lies with them. 8)

I don’t think that there is any need for legalities, at least in my case. This is just more of an exercise of identifying the social norms regarding customer service. I am unhappy with their service, made my point clear and won’t be shopping there any longer. In the future if any other reefer explicitly asks for my opinion about their shop and the service received, I certainly give it to them.

I am fortunate enough to have quite a few other shops in my town that are more than happy to take my money and provide better service. Those are the shops that will get my endorsement, if that even means anything.

[Pies]

My comments above aside, there is certainly something to be said for keeping loyal customers happy. Word of mouth and reputation are very valuable.

As others have said, your best course of action is to spend your hard earned money else where and encourage others to do the same by sharing you experances with them. The door swings both ways.

I've had poor experance with HFF 3 kings in Auckland, and would not purchase from them again. I have had great service and peace of mind from Jansens 3 kings, and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from them again. I hate great service from Petworld in Chch (from eddy?) and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from them again, although i have heard negitives about this store, my 3 dealins with them have been superb.

Pieman

[Tanksman]

I agree with Rossco

It is a live animal purchase. When related to the purchase of herds of cows there are numerous conditions that can be included in the contract for the sale such as wether the beast is incalf or not - a critical thing if buying for use as a cow. The problem is getting the retailer to agree to the terms. Some are more approachable than others.

Some of these critters you saltys have in your tanks are very expensive and agreements should be much more commonplace. Even if it is only agreement in advance that a fish can be returned for specific reasons within a defined period and what each partys responsibilities are.

And also Pies says take your money elsewhere. Good advice but it is a shame when its the best shop in town you've got problems with. Edit Pies and others say - so do I :roll:

[JoeBlog]

And also Pies says take your money elsewhere. Good advice but it is a shame when its the best shop in town you've got problems with. Edit Pies and others say - so do I

That’s very interesting. Why is it the “best†shop in town? What are the characteristics that make a shop the “best�

To some degree it is stock, but it seems that if time isn’t an issue, there are enough importers around that a non-importing retail outlet can give you the same stock and possibly even more variety since you are dealing with multiple importers. As for ChCh, there are two other shops in town that import as well. One thing can be said, having vertical integration certainly hasn’t led to lower prices.

That brings up a more heated topic (historically on this forum) of prices. I care about prices, but it isn’t the bottom line for me. The reason being is that I am not only purchasing the good, but also the service (bundling).

I would argue that the most important factor (given that you can get product) is customer service. I have (and do) pay more for a good that comes along with good service.

It is a live animal purchase. When related to the purchase of herds of cows there are numerous conditions that can be included in the contract for the sale such as wether the beast is incalf or not - a critical thing if buying for use as a cow. The problem is getting the retailer to agree to the terms. Some are more approachable than others.

Some of these critters you saltys have in your tanks are very expensive and agreements should be much more commonplace. Even if it is only agreement in advance that a fish can be returned for specific reasons within a defined period and what each partys responsibilities are.

As you (Tanksman) refer to, the problem is incomplete contracts. It is arguable that complete contracts are an impossibility. Given this, it is the implicit contract that comes along with customer service that I am looking for in a LFS that I will show my loyalty. I guess this is established by a long term relationship and the reason that I am so pissed off is that I feel as though they have broken this contract. If they will behave like this to a devoted customer, how will they treat the new guy?

[lduncan]

I think the hobby is too small to annoy your customers over a trivial things like this. You could lose a lot of business over one or two hundred dollars. I know what I'd be doing, If I owned the business.

There are plenty of sources of livestock in ChCh, and beyond.

Layton