bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 The orange platty that came to us with the original tank we bought, died today. I did a full water test, these are the results: pH 7.0 Nitrates 0.5 Nitrites 0.0 Ammonia 4.0 Have been gravel vaccing, and doing partial water changes. I have also been running peat in the filter to lower pH, and changed back to the normal filter media this morning. I had had the usual filter media in the tank while I was running the peat. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kookie Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Is it possible your fish died of old age? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 It is possible I guess, but doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't the fish slow down or show some abnormal behaviour first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Your cleaning of the gravel could be removing food and therefore reducing microorganisms that will eventually convert your ammonia to non toxic nitrate that can then be removed by plants or water change. Your pH is OK but your ammonia is too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Is that 4 mg/l of ammonia? If so thats why your fish has died - I would suggest the tank has not cycled yet - Ammonia should be below 0.5mg/l ideally zero or unreadable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 That reading is correct, Tanksman, and there are other fish at stake. Given that I am a newbie, what is the next step to correct water conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 How are you cleaning the filter - What type of filter is it? What media does it have in it. How much water is in the tank? Now do 50% water change with water out of a bigger tank or stable tank if you have it and replace the water in the bigger tank with tap water - you might want to dechlorinate it depends how much your putting in. If you don't have a bigger tank change 50 % of the water but definitely add something to remove the chlorine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 The tank is 75 litres. The filter is a Fluval hang-on-the-back type, media is sponge, activated carbon, bioballs. Cleaned by rinsing in tankwater at gravel vac/partial water change time. Will do a big water change. Likelihood is that I stirred up some nasty stuff in the last gravel vaccing. I will do 50% water change right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monaro1 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 dont clean the filter,just the water changes for a while.clean filter when water flow is slow,and when you clean filter dont do water change the same day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Absolutely Monaro and another thing - chuck that carbon in the rubbish - Use more bioballs or even plain gravel. Carbon only ends up biting you if you get a bit tardy replacing it. Using fine filter wool is good to polish the water but it clogs quickly and slows the flow so it needs replacing around fortnightly for best flows. It is not needed though but does help get the water crystal clear. Just take out the carbon and leave the filter for two months at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Okay, carbon is out. Part way through water change now. It's in the lap of the gods now, as they say. My fingers are crossed. And, THANKS for your help and comments, it's good to have some feedback as I quietly panic! Um would it be OK to use cotton wool to replace carbon overnight, till I can get to LFS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I'd follow up the large water change by smaller water changes perhaps daily - and cut down drastically on feeding. Don't overdo the water changes though because it might stress the fish. Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yes, I think the fish are stressed enough already, Jude... I'll follow that, and keep testing the water. I'll keep you posted. At the moment, I have a gut feeling that the last gravel vaccing may have been a little too vigorous, and stirred up some nasty stuff at the bottom of the gravel. (Which probably means, I'm not vaccing often enough?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Or overfeeding or the gravel wasn't washed properly when you setup the tank or more likely it just hasn't cycled yet - Once the filter is established there should be no ammonia or nitrites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 OK, update. Big water change last night, adult fish transferred to another tank overnight. Readings in main tank are now: pH=7.2 (a little high) Nitrates=0 Nitrites=0.25 Ammonia=0.5 Tanksman, gravel thoroughly washed before it went in, and tank had (just) completed it's cycle...now we start over. Overnight, we lost our clown loach (stress) and also our harlequin rasbora (seeking greener pastures, jumped to arid brown carpet) All remaining fish back in main tank now. First stop today, lfs: more Cycle (running low now!!! ) and some ammo-lok. Once again, a huge THANKS for your help through this. (Plus, we are selling our home, agents through in bulk today) :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Your filter and gravel are the media where food for good bacteria is stored (krud) If you clean the filter and the gravel you remove the food and the bacteria die off,or are removed with the krud. The tank cycles by establishing a balance between bacteria and food so that the nitrogen in the fish waste (urea) can be converted to ammonia then nitrite and nitrate. The plants remove the nitrate. Think of the filter and gravel as a living thing and allow it to become host to all the good bugs that will establish the balance in the tank, rather than trying to keep the tank clean/clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Thanks Alan, I'll take that on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Don't use Ammolock! It will stuff up the cycling. Keep it natural. It will also stuff up test results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Sorry Caryl, too late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 What other fish are in the tank Bruce_see? If there are fish you want to live may I suggest you try to find somewhere else for them for a week or so until the filter and tank have cycled. It is going to take awhile and your going to lose more by the looks of todays test results. Once the Ammonia falls away the nitrite will spike most likely. This is because the nitrite eating bacteria are sensitive to ammonia and will only start to build up after the ammonia has been eliminated. Do you know anyone down there who keeps fish who could either give them a temporary home or give you some water. IMHO you need a good 40 litres of cycled aquarium water to replace 40 of your 75 litres. If you were handy you could pick it up from me - A good excuse to do a water change - I'd stir abit of gravel up first which should free up some bacteria to start culturing your filter. Maybe Deco Pets might be able to help with a home (I wouldn't use water from a LFS in my tank -No offence to any LFS) while your tank finds an initial equilibrium. And you can save your money on the chemicals IMHO- It is debateable whether or not you can speed up the cycling with products like cycle. Given how they depend on Oxygen once in the filter how does the oxygen get in the bottle to keep them alive while they are on route to your place. I also think it is curious (outrageous) how half these things don't have expiry dates .... Not saying it doesn't work but like Caryl said above Don't use Ammolock! It will stuff up the cycling. Keep it natural. It will also stuff up test results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Actually after looking again ammonia 0.5 is not too bad :oops: I read 5.0 first look. But nevertheless I don't think your tank has cycled yet and adding more fish today could quickly raise the levels again. Did you change any water today? Was it before or after the tests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 tanksman your right, that cycle is a waste of money. the reasons you said are right, and the only bacteria in a bottle that will work is refridgerated stuff. they have to refridgerate it so the bacteria lie dormant, dont need to feed hence not producing waste. dont think we have bio-spira over here but they do in the US and its great stuff apparently. you have to add it to your tank the same time as fish (not sure on the rest of the specs sorry). the handful of established media/gravel is a good way, otherwise you will just have to wait the rest of the cycle out (water changes!!!). as tanksman said dont add any more fish, it will over load your growing bio load and cause a ammonia spike. once its all finished you can add more (slowly, a few at a time). HTH even if i was just going over tanksmans posts lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Okay, had to take my eldest son to hospital this morning but back now. Readings for today are: pH =7.0 Nitrate = 0.0 Nitrite =0.0 Ammonia = 0.5 Those readings are with the AmmoLok in the system, of course. Sounds to me like a feed (get some nitrate into the system) and perhaps leave the partial water change for tomorrow, unless it is really important to get the Ammolok out by partials each day. The only other tank available to us is our original one ...ten (10) litres. Our fish now consist of 4 blue platies, 1 orange platy, 1 zebra danio, 1 bristlenose catfish. We have one extremely healthy clump of grass in the tank, which hides a quantity of baby platies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksman Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 OK those fish are fine and should be hardy enough. The reading looks good - I have no experience with ammolock and DHT to research it. Your probly right that you don't have to change any water but IMHO no feed is required for 5 days to help reduce waste. The b/nose eats algae that will grow on side of tank and the platys and danios can eat little one cellers growing on the plants. Just keep testing the water and changing at least 9 - 10 litres - (1 bucket) every 2 days or so after you test the conditions. Looking good Bruce_see - sounz like you have it all happning at the mo with hospital and Land agents - Keep your chin up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_see Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 The hospital visit was just routine, Tanksman - our eldest son was born 11 weeks prem and with major heart problems. Now he has a wheelchair, cerebral palsy, and LOTS of hospital visits and specialists and....it's all part of our "normal" life now. He has made it to ten years old, and is pretty much OK. (But as for us??? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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