chimera Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 The "golden number" Phi (yes Phi, not Pi) equals 1.618. An irrational number used in many famous people to create historic architectural buildings and artwork etc. Also used in the formula of beauty. Using "Phi" the perfect size tank (assuming 600mm height) would be 1341mm in length and 970mm in width. maybe an idea to use should someone be designing their next reef tank Go to 700mm in height, then you'd have 1559mm in length and 1132mm in width. http://people.bath.ac.uk/sny20/maths.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 sounds like TMs new tank to me would my wife take it as a complement if i told her she looked like Phi?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Just tell her Phi is a hot new catwalk model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 i think she would be less impressed with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 cool, tell her she looks like a number then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Someone has been reading the Davanci Code. Phi's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Gunner Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 The more common proportion used within architecture and graphic design is the Golden section, or the Fibonacci Sequence: http://www.ewersarchitecture.com/golden_section.htm I think (on it's side) it would be quite a nice size ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 golden section, golden ratio, golden number, Fibonacci number/sequence or the (greek) word Phi - they are all the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Interesting! I use fibonacci ratios for share trading, to figure out support and resistance levels for price. Does seem to be some kind of natural law, or at least, something the human psyche is tuned into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 heres something to think about 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'll see your 14, and raise you "4 8 15 16 23 42" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Its the most irritional number(non recurring, to infinity decimal places), it is used in nature for leaf distribution, as the leaves will be spread in the most random fashion without overlap, it is the MOST random of random "fractions". I think its used everywhere in nature, but there is also a lot of hype about it - da vinci code talks about it I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 There is a lot of hype about it. Most of it is rubbish though. Phi is defined by the mathematical property that phi squared equals phi plus one: Φ² = Φ + 1 This turns out to be significant in the optimal solutions to many naturally occuring problems. As an example, the angle between any two leaves on a stem where the leaves are arranged spirally is usually 1/Φ² revolutions (~138°). This is the optimal solution to the problem of minimising overlap between leaves in the spiral, allowing them to collect as much light as possible. There is no reason to suppose that in any given situation a ratio of phi should be better than any other solution intrinsically. More, it is simply that the key property of phi makes it significant in many solutions like this. I wouldn't, however, leap to the conclusion that this should have anything to do with aquaria until demonstrated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 There is a lot of hype about it. Most of it is rubbish though :roll: in your opinion or everyone elses? There is no reason to suppose that in any given situation a ratio of phi should be better than any other solution intrinsically hence why it was stated as an irrational number, not mathematical fact. beauty is in the phi of the beholder I wouldn't, however, leap to the conclusion that this should have anything to do with aquaria until demonstrated! no leap to conclusion was made. phi has simply been shown to be the ratio used by many famous people to design works of art or construct the 'perfect' face and body, amongst many other things. this post was made as simple consideration to others if making their next tank. i would be interested to see if a tank made on the golden ratio was aesthetically pleasing to the eye as opposed to the standard (and imo boring) rectangular shaped tank that seems to be the norm these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 easy way to test it would be to make a few nano's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 If you made a tank with the golden ratio, it would still be a rectangle, but the most asthecticially pleasing rectangle. Also this is the optimum as defind by the population as a whole, an average optimum, so it isnt everyones cup of tea. Perhaps one could start with some cut out rectangles based on the golden ratio, and progressivly make them less perfect,(use 1 standard deviation each time) and pick their own choice. Good old normal distribution. I wouldn't be surprised if most tanks are near this anyway, its the most common rectangle we see probably as marketing people are very aware of small things like this to help product promotion. I think the hype is in putting to much weight in something that doesnt actully further science. It is very useful for finding measurements like the perfect woman ect and explaining attractive rectangles , but loads of people list where the golden ratio is found in nature, purely observational, which in my opinion is pretty useless information. They dont attempt to explain it, and it is sometimes used as proof for creationism- something I have an utter disdain for, arrrggghhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 I was also stoked to find that after futher measurements, a nautalis shell is not of the golden ratio, even though it was a bit of a poster boy example of phi. And on a similar note, there is a LOT of rounding that goes on with examples in nature. Ive seen somewhere a comparison of exact (as exact as possible) measurements with what was claimed to be phi in wildlife examples and there were huge discrepencies, often over .2 of a decimal place. The good old "science" of throwing your dart first and drawing the bullseye around it. The corner stone of creationism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 And he insults all the christians on here :lol: like me ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 dont worry seth if he was trying to seriously offend im sure he would have checked his spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Nah i was kidding it would take a bit more than that to offend me each to their own i suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 If you made a tank with the golden ratio, it would still be a rectangle, but the most asthecticially pleasing rectangle you know what i meant. jeeez!!! such a basic post stating something so simple and everyone gets carried away about a frickin' shape. it's only an irrational number that theoretically could make an aesthetically pleasing shaped tank for #!@#$ sake!!! i have a mystical and magical number 234788912734897 it's a whole lot of random numbers i just typed on the keyboard... BUT, simply read this number out loud to everyone in your office while standing on one foot and thee shall receive one weeks worth of good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 I think japanese are into something like this. Amazing landscapes and architecture (old temples etc) bonzais, and breathtaking aquariums. Years ago when I was in a martial arts club all the moves are based on rythms, formulas etc, and I was also into bonzai growing that's all by set formulas too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 hey i hear ya chimera. i think we should make about 3-4 little nano's (about 20 litres) to various dimensions and see what looks best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 dont worry seth if he was trying to seriously offend im sure he would have checked his spelling Whats wrong with my spelling? Granted I spell some things wrong, my computer doesn't have a spell checker, but I always try to have legible posts. I have just discovered spellcheck.net so I should be better in the future, my grandma always complains about poor spelling skills in the education system. I only posted for informations sake, chimera I wasnt being condascending (I could have worded it better) I was just saying that the perfect measurement is an average from a population. My stats class (that I failed incidentally) spent a lecture on it. And for the record attacking creationism isn't an attack on christians. I have a lot of christian friends who hate it as much as me. Sorry if I'm a bit blunt, I sat through a ridiculous seminar the other day with some people who were trying to get creationism taught at uni. :-? Anyway, back on topic would you use the ratio for the whole tank? As in the width aswell? How far are your tanks off the ratio? And how much actually makes a difference, ie would 2 cm's either side be enough to notice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Feelers was it you with the octopus? How's it going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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