MartyM Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I have a major prob at the moment. I put together a fish setup with a jebo tank filter pump ect about a week ago with some neons a couple of small cat fish and a fighting fish and a bristle nose. So far all of the neons have died and the fighter has just gone as well. I have tried everything I can but the levels of Ammonia are still high. I have done a 10% water change every 2nd day with a small gravel vac at the same time, only small amouts at a time. Added plants, only feed them every two days. I am also using stress coat and Prime stuff for removing chlorine & Ammonia but nothing seams to change. And now the Bristle nose is looking unwell. The pet store just keeps selling me more and more chemicals that dont help. I treat the new water and let it sit for half a day before I put it into the tank. Any idears before Oscar goes as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi Marty, OK, i will have a go... An indication of the tank size would help. It sounds like you have been a little bit enthusiastic with putting the fish into the tank. I am guessing that yo have read on the forums already about "cycling". This allows the bacteria that convert ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate to colonize the water, filter, and gravel. It simply sounds like you have very little bacteria and plenty of fish producing waste... Unfortunatly through your losses, the system may stabalize and the bacteria that are present will be able to handle the wastes of the lower number of fish. Keep up the water changes - but you may like to increase to 10% daily until the ammonia is under control - I am assumeing you have a test kit? You could also help us out by letting us know the chemicals you are using. Hope that helps JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hey John The additives I am useing are: Stress Coat, Stress Zyme and Prime. Also tank size is 40L. Yes I bought an ammonia test kit on Friday so is very handy. The water has turned a little cloudy for some reason. And I just lost the Bristle nose so just leaves to small cat fish which seam to be fine at the mo. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi Marty, Welcome to the NZ Fishroom You say: I put together a fish setup with a jebo tank filter pump ect about a week ago with some neons a couple of small cat fish and a fighting fish and a bristle nose. So far all of the neons have died and the fighter has just gone as well. I have tried everything I can but the levels of Ammonia are still high. But then you say: Any idears before Oscar goes as well? Did nobody tell you that Oscars and Neons.. plus the Betta.. just don't go together..? We need to know a bit more... like... How many fish do you have (or have had) .. in the tank.? How long has the tank been running..? How often are you feeding.. and what are you feeding..? Has it "suddenly" become cloudy.. or was it always so..? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Gee, Bill...I thought he meant his fish named Oscar :roll: Few things: -too many fish too soon, not good -new tank needs to cycle (as was pointed out, you can read about it here) -try to learn what fish are compatable, NOT all fish are -read, read, read -remember sometimes that cute little fish can grow into a huge big fish -don't be so willing to believe everything that pet store people tell you (not to say that all are not good, but some just don't have the experience/knowledge) -all though the more experienced people may not require the use of test kits or regular water changes...we as newbies...these are good things -watch your fish...feeding is a good time...get to know their behaviour, their color, their shape, etc. ....that way, the more you know these things the more you'll know if something is wrong -ask questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question, asking is how we learn...and you will see that the people here are always willing to help & have lots of experience and knowledge -you will find that, as in most things in life, there will be differences of opions...but that's also because what works for one, may not work for another AND...it is sad...BUT...sometimes no matter what we do, we will have fishies die! And don't forget as Bill pointed out...let us know more about what you have! AND LASTLY...have fun, this is a great hobby and remember the people here are fantastic...I'd be lost without them! Take care, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hey Guys Down to the two cat fish, didnt have any trouble between the fighting fish, neons and brisltle nose at all. They all got on very well together. The tank was bought about two weeks ago I just worked out not one week ago as I thought (Time flys) with 10 neons two small cat fish and the fighting fish from the same shop. They basicly said just add these additives and you will be fine. About 4 days latter is when I added a Bristle nose (Oscar) and everything was happness. Until about four days after that the neons started dropping like flies. Followed by the fighting fish and finally the bristle nose yesterday. Just leaves the fiesty wee cat fish. I am now doing a 10% water change each day but have just noticed over the last day or so the water has gone a bit cloudy. Is that some sort of bacterial thing starting to happen? Rergards Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Cloudy when a tank is cycling is normal...ummm....right all knowledgable fishy people What size is your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Jebo 40L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 What kind of cat fish? Do you mean algae eaters? If so, I'm not sure if you would have enough algae in your tank yet to feed them, what do others think???? And, can he use these when cycling or should he get 2 of something else? I would not add any more fish till someone here who has more knowledge recommends it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think they are little bronze catfish, only very small but are botton feeders. I dont think they eat algar. As they spend all day moving around the gravel on the bottom of the tank. Keep it clean thou. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Marty said: The tank was bought about two weeks ago I just worked out not one week ago as I thought (Time flys) with 10 neons two small cat fish and the fighting fish from the same shop. They basicly said just add these additives and you will be fine. Ok... Let's try to work this out... You went out and bought a 40ltr tank.. filled it with water... added the additives.. then the fish... Is this right...? How long did you leave the tank set up "before" adding the fish...? Hours... A day.. A few days.. A week..? About 4 days latter is when I added a Bristle nose (Oscar) and everything was happness. Until about four days after that the neons started dropping like flies. Followed by the fighting fish and finally the bristle nose yesterday. Just leaves the fiesty wee cat fish. It could be possible that the BN (and the water it was in).. has brought something into your tank.. but it is more than likely that the conditions your fish were living in were not ideal for the addition of so many fish so quickly. 40ltrs is not a lot of water.. but hey... I have some of my two footers with over a hundred guppies in them.. but... and it it a BIG but... the tanks they are in are "established".. with a regulated balance of water... fish... and filtration.. which means that any nasty old bacteria that comes along is quickly dealt with and not allowed to increase to high levels. Now in "your" case.. you have a body of water that has no defences.. because your filtration system has not had time to grow enough of the good bacteria that it needs to keep the tank from exploding with bad bacteria... which it appears has happened with your tank. The "Bacteria explosion" occurs when toxic waste is produced through fish watses and uneaten food and plant matter.. so all tis is creating a bacteria that the filters can't cope with... and so it just grows and grows.. until your fish start dropping like flies. I am now doing a 10% water change each day but have just noticed over the last day or so the water has gone a bit cloudy. Is that some sort of bacterial thing starting to happen? This is the main solution... Water changes on a regular basis. Your filters MUST be left running 24/7... and your feeding should be balanced to what the fish can FULLY consume in five minutes. Find a friend with a gungy old established filter. Then go to the local supermarket or LFS and buy a small cheap corner box filter. Get some of the media from your friends filter (or borrow an old sponge filter if they have one).. and quickly get it back to your tank and set it running. The live bacteria in this.. plus your water changes will clear your tank in a few hours. Let it run for a few days to see that things are right. Next step... If you only have two remaining fish... When you see things are coming right... (Clear tank.. no more losses)... then go and buy two or three guppies. Pop these in the tank and leave for two or three weeks. If they survive.. then add another three fish after this period.. but NOT before. Hope it goes well. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 HEY BILL The tank came with a filter and I noticed the the ceramic media are starting to get slimey. So thats a good thing right? I leave water for about half a day with the treatment additives in it before it goes into the tank. Four Litres at a time. And at the moment I am only putting one bottom feeder pill into the tank every two days for the catfish. The filter unit is on 24/7 but I dont know anyone that has tropical fish in Welly so cant grab anyones old media. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Neons are to sensitive a fish to be used to cycle a tank. This isn't a go at you, the lfs should know better. :-? All those additives they sold are not/ should not be needed. If they sold you just 3 or 4 guppies or something similar to start your tank, all would of been fine. The cloudiness will be a bacterial bloom. Harmless. Heres a couple of good reads via Brads web site. A shop that cares :lol: New tank Syndrome, http://backend.ewock.com/ewocksql3/asp/index.asp?ID=491&Action=SM&IDCat=1403&IDSub=1265&IDItem=Null Starting a new Tank, http://backend.ewock.com/ewocksql3/asp/index.asp?ID=491&Action=SM&IDCat=1403&IDSub=1266&IDItem=Null Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Thanks Guys All lots to take in but very valuable stuff. I did another ammonia check this morning and it seams to be a little lower than before. The catfish are still very much alive so seams they will be the starters for this tank I guess. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Marty, Take heart that you are not alone with all this, and that it happens to many that start off in this amazing hobby.. plus you can always get help here. Although you are keeping the cats.. once your tank settles down.. you would be better getting the couple of guppies mentioned.. as these are more active fish, and will give you early warning signs if anything is going amiss.... but this is up to you. Herefishy said: The cloudiness will be a bacterial bloom. Harmless Not "exactly" true unfortunately.. as there are several types of so called bacteria bloom. Often when a tank is first set up we get a cloudiness until the water settles and things level off.. but this only normally lasts a day or so.. and yes.. this is pretty harmless... but then there is the other type caused through pollution or bad water conditions.. overstocking.. bad filtration and so on... and "this" type can kill within hours in some cases... as you have found out unfortunately... so "knowing" which type is affecting your tank is the first step to erradicating it. Sorry for your losses, and hope things come right. Stick with it Marty.. and in a few months or so you will look back and think of all this as just one of the huge steps you had to take to get things right. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hey Bill The water seams to be clear again. Was only cloudy for a day or so. Will get a couple of Guppys as official water testers. Tanks again. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Dont rush in Marty.... Whats the ammonia reading? It should be zero. Do you have the Nitrite test kit too?? It should be zero as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Will get a Nitrite test kit today and will wait till evertything settles down. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Yeah, nice one mate! Good to see your keen and keep those questions flying in , were all happy to help. Unfortunatly the one thing you really need, but cant buy, is patience. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Yip that the key. But dont want my living room turned into another fish morgue!! Marty :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hi Marty M, were in welly are you?, there are alot of people from wellington here. just reading your origanl post and you said you use a produce called "prime" which removes the clorine and ammonia? is this correct? when cycling a tank you need the ammonia to feed the first stage of cycling, so using a product that removes ammonia will prolong the cycling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Hey Stu Thanks for that so much to learn. Did a test today and the Ammonia level has gone down to a very low level which I guess the tank is stabbleizing itself now. Which is good news. Marty PS: I am in Mirimar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 OK People ready for the next exciting epesode. The Nitrite level is off the scale. I think I saw the test tube disolve as well. Bought the test kit today and got a wee suprise. The Ammonia levels are now 0 but the nitrite levels are very high. The best answer is? Thanks Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Do a partial water change to lower the nitrite a bit. You want to leave some nitrite so the filter develops properly. If the reading is off-scale you could easily do a 50% water change. Make sure you treat the new water in an external bucket first to get rid of the chlorine. You can also get it to the right temperature by adding hot water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyM Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hey Warren Doing a 10% water change each day, leting the water sit for half a day first treated then warming to correct temp before putting into tank. Guess theres not much more that can be done. Marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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