Feelers Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I've decided that I want to give making my own base rock a go, mainly cost and because I want to build a nice cave for my future octopus. I've looked of reef central, and found the recipe I want to use, however all the recipies require portland white cement, I know nothing about concrete so what types are acceptable? I went to the wharehouse and saw normal cement, would this be ok? I dont really want white rocks anyway, I happy with the brown playsand coulour look (as this isnt a reef tank). Has anyone tried making these rocks before? the recipe I like the look of is, 1 cement, 4 oyster shell, 1 playsand, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I am going to make some myself. Going to use cement (not concrete which already has sand in it), coral sand and coral chunks. That way the rock will still be porous. Planning on making holes through the rock using various sizes of plastic pipe during construction. I have been told that if you vasaline the pipes first, the concrete will not stick and you can pull them out when the concrete hardens. I have used normal concrete to join larger coral pieces together. Either way, you need to soak your rock in saltwater to cure it once it is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 oyster shells are very high in phostphates so not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 How would pumice go in the making of the concrete That will have plenty of porasity (any such word,spp??) Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Years ago when I repiled my house in gisborne, I made the piles myself, using pumice, sand, and cement. This was the procedure in those days to make the piles lite for dragging around under a house, made perfectly fine concrete. However as to impurities of reef tank significance, that will probably vary from one batch of cement to another. Unless buying a reef tank designed product it is probably not possible to know what may be lurking in the cement. Garf make concrete plugs for their frags, they first soak them in vinegar, then cure them in salt water for a couple of months. I think this is not so much to establish a biological filter, but more because new concrete can release major calcium / alkalinity and effect these levels in the tank. IMO the safest plan would be to make a few trial rocks, go chuck them in a rock pool at the beach for a few months to leach whatever they may leach, then introduce to the tank one at a time, monitoring levels and observing livestock carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikan Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Keep us posted feelers and petplanet about how you get on with your rock. I would also be interested in trying out a few different designs. I would also be inclined to use cement aka the portland type which is ready available from any landscape, concrete suppliers eg Atlas concrete.My only concern obviously as well would be the leaching of impurities and lime, but hopefully with enough curing it could be safe. There are other products other than cement or concrete that professional aquarium building companies use. I will try and find out what these are and post it along with the availability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Found some white portland cement at Stevensons. $54 a bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hey petplanet is $52 expensive compared normal cement? How big a bag was it? Does anyone know if standard cement mix has lime in it? Most of the bags I can find don't really list ingrediants. Can anyone reccommend a brand? I might try and find the portland stuff just to do it right. And about the oyster shells - are you sure this creates phosphates? Would they even matter in my proposed setup? Is anyone in Chch keen to team up and make some base rock- split the work/cost ? - Layton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yes cement is made from lime. 2 1/2 months ago I bought 3 x 40 kg bags of portland cement from Stevensons, they were $13.11 + GST per bag. Phosphate will matter if you want to keep your tank free of algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Will I still get algae without any lighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 No nothing survives without light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 You will of course need some light if you intend to look at it. Algae is inevitable, and if you don't manage you will have problems. Reduction of P04 by Skimming is probably a good start. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 You will of course need some light if you intend to look at it. Pie That's kind of what I was thinking :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 unless he wants to run with man-made rocks, big skimmer and no light until the phosphates drop not sure how long the 'leeching' would take before phosphates dropped to near 0 levels, depends on the amount of rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 P04 isn't the only cause of algae. Light, nuitrients and DOC all play a factor. Export the badness. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I think I'd probably pass on the oyster shells and use the rock salt method. Mix heaps of rock salt in and it dissolves when you cure it leaving the rock more porous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Trouble is, an octopus makes a heckuva mess. Need a major nutrient removal system in place if this is the means to keep the tank clean. Only other alternative would be keep the tank dimly lit, or major regular cleaning of the glass and forget about the algae on the rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Amazing how many guys are sitting up watching their computers this time of night! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I am never un-plugged Pie (there is no spoon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well I'm probably not going to run any "real" lighting. Just leds, I was thinking of white ones, dunno about the wavelength of those or if it could grow algae? unless he wants to run with man-made rocks, big skimmer and no light until the phosphates drop well I dont think my weipro can be described as big :roll: haha. Damn, I just really like the oystershell look. I do remember a thread about the phosphate thing and I think someone ran a test, ill see if I can find it - if rc isnt overloaded - man they are useless! :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Oh yeah I was thinking of "livening" up my rock in the sea, but I'm a bit worried about loosing it or it being washed away or something. I remember someone suggesting putting it in a washing basket - but you would probably want a bouy, and from past experience thats the best way for it to get disturbed by crayfish theifs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Amazing how many guys are sitting up watching their computers this time of night! I was up looking through my tank to see what comes out at night. i've had a look before with a torch but didnt see much. this time i just used the infrared from my digital camera so as not to 'scare away' any unsuspecting guests. how bloody interesting! i'd have to say i have seen worms larger than i ever thought i had, centipede looking things, more acro crabs, crabs twice the size of the acro crabs and more. unreal, its more interesting at night than day! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Oh yeah I was thinking of "livening" up my rock in the sea. I've cured several batches of rock in a rock pool at our local beach. Comes out nice & clean and smelling sweet. One batch I left there 4 months as I had no place for it, so when I finally got it it had a nice smattering of coraline algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted October 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Oyster shells are almost pure calcium carbonate (95-99%) and are good sources of calcium for all classes of animals. Clam shells, conch shells, coral and coral sand can all be used for feeding. I also read that when they crush the oystershells they just chuck the whole oyster in, insides and all. I think the phosphate comes from the rest of it. The guy who made his oystercrete did some tests and said PO4's were nill. He said that when you wash the shells you can see all the crap coming off. I think when I get round to making them I'll do some with and some without. Cover my bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I was up looking through my tank to see what comes out at night. i've had a look before with a torch but didnt see much. this time i just used the infrared from my digital camera so as not to 'scare away' any unsuspecting guests. how bloody interesting! i'd have to say i have seen worms larger than i ever thought i had, centipede looking things, more acro crabs, crabs twice the size of the acro crabs and more. unreal, its more interesting at night than day! :lol: Chim, try buying one of these thingsand shining it in your tank at night. Now THAT is unreal. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Gadgets/Other/auction-38934349.htm Hard to get pics though because the water flouresces and confuses the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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