Pegasus Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 HI all... another news item. Saw a news article the other day regarding polution in water... namely the drinking water that some people in India have to use in their everyday lives. The bacteria levels in this water were very high, which was a great concern to everyone as it was a major cause of dysentery among other things. The powers to be had tried various means to bring the waters from the local rivers up to a suitable standard, but of course this technology was not available to all that were affected, which amounts to many millions. The people themselves came up with the answer by filtering the water through silk.... namely in the form of their "Sari's" which the women (who are made to collect the water) wore as their everyday normal dress. It was found that the polution and harmful bacteria was reduced by over 50% using this method, and the after effects of illness were also reduced. Nothing technical was involved, they just poured the water from their containers straight into another container via the silk Sari filter, that was only one or two layers thick. Perhaps we should be looking down another "avenue" for the best methods of filtering our water for our fishy mates Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Doesn't really sound any different than a standard filter. Maybe a bit finer, probably pretty similar filtration wise to using filter wool, I'd guesstimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 The difference here of course.... according to the report... was that the results were instant, unlike the filter wool that takes time to become established to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 They wouldn't be getting any kind of biological filtration of any type with the silk. Just mechanical, which the filter wool would also do immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 The powers to be had tried various means to bring the waters from the local rivers up to a suitable standard, but of course this technology was not available to all that were affected, which amounts to many millions. The people themselves came up with the answer by filtering the water through silk.... namely in the form of their "Sari's" which the women (who are made to collect the water) wore as their everyday normal dress. It was found that the polution and harmful bacteria was reduced by over 50% using this method, and the after effects of illness were also reduced. Maybe I got it wrong Ira... I've been doing some real late nights/mornings lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Doesn't sound like there's really anything unexpected happening, they're just filtering out most of the larger garbage. You'd probably get similar results pouring the water through a couple layers of socks. Well, maybe not quite, I'd guess their silk dresses would probably be a pretty fine weave. Not a bad idea though, to use their clothes to filter it...Better than drinking totally unfiltered water, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 they're just filtering out most of the larger garbage Read the BOLD print above Ira. It was just a news item that I was passing on to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Next time I go camping I'll take a silk hanky with me!!! I wonder if it has something to do with the structure of the silk fibres? Being made by silk worm saliva there might be some reaction going on more than just mechanical. On a molecular level like some of the ceramic filters for drinking water or even electrostatic charges??? Just ideas. Dianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Ahhh, I'm getting lost on these bizarre tangents. I found the possibilites with silk really interesting and found that silk threads or fibres made from the silk moth larvae (Bombyx mori), are made of amino acids, which is basically protein and have a crystalline structure....... Silk worm spit, try this topic at your next dinner party and amaze all your friends. Dianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Real interesting Dianna.... So I wasn't going potty after all.... I must remember to cancel my appointment with my psychologist, if I could only remember where his office is. Mmmm... perhaps I could use the phone once I've read all the new posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 I saw the tail end of that program a while ago. The silk will just be filtering bacteria and larger particles of pollution such as clumps of muck and similar. It just does this very well by having a very fine weave with small holes. No biological filtration will be occuring here, just good mechanical filtration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 That's what I've been saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Was a bit skeptical at first.....i mean bacteria r pretty tiny things...and for silk to b fine enough......seems too good to b true....but it makes more sense now. i guess the water must b really foul n polluted....with large organic particles etc.....and attached onto these particles must b heaps of bacteria---about 50% of total bacteria. the silk would b fine enough to filter these particles together with any adherent bacteria....explaining its efficacy, while the other 50% nonadherent bugs will simply flow through the seive. guess silk might b useful if u're using muddy water etc, but it'll b useless with most of our ' crystal clear' water in NZ... thanks for sharing this Bill Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 there might be some reaction going on more than just mechanical. On a molecular level like some of the ceramic filters for drinking water or even electrostatic charges Gettin technical here Delta but u're probably right....life's often more complex than we think. i doubt silk would b that useful.....it'll probably clog up easily( either due to it's finest or other 'adhesive' properties) when added into a filter........leading to stagnant water--decrease oxygen---decrease biological capacity.......i don't even have any filter wool in my system....doesn't do much really but clog up the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Good one people... interesting feedback. Many thanks to all. Don't wonder WE are confused... the PTB (Powers to be) don't REALLY understand it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Does anyone remember school science classes where the teacher rubbed a carbon rod and a glass rod with a piece of silk to create static electricity. The carbon rod would pick up paper and the glass rod wouldn't, showing that the carbon was an electricity conducter and glass wasn't. Well, talking about silk reminded me of this experiment so I thought there might have been some static electricity type thing happening when the water passed thru the silk, water being a conducter too.... I don't really know, thought it might have been worth mentioning. I often look for the complicated reason and completely miss the simple ones :lol: Dianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Static electricity is a powerful thing. Just off the subject slightly, but it's time for a laugh. Some years back I was doing some consultancy work for a curtain manufacturer. The woman on one of the machines was complaining of shocks, so I removed my tie and jacket, slipped on an overall (nylon) and checked the unit out, and even ran it for a while. I couldn't find anything wrong, but stood by the rear of the machine watching the curtaining flow off the back. I reached out to examine the stitch on the machine and grabbed the curtain. ZAP..... I was thrown a good twenty feet across the room and finished up red faced sat on my rear among a pile of squashed cartons. We ran an earth strap from the fabric to ground in the finish.... no more probs. Powerful stuff alright..... now if only we could harness it :) Comb or brush your hair and the comb or brush will pick up bits of paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hi Dianna I don't think static electricity can occur under water. As Pegasus said, the comb theory, works all the time, but not under water. By the way Ira, silk is better than filterwool. And if filterwool does eventually become a biological filter, so would the silk. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hi John, Yeh you're right, static doesn't work under water, but water is a conductor of electricity so It might not be static exactly but more to do with positive and negative charges???? As the water passes thru the silk it is pos or neg charged, or picks up a charge and then the..........oh I don't know what I'm talknig about :oops: Dianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hi Dianna As the water passes throught the silk, it is not pos. or neg. charged. It is wet. That's all John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Dianna said: As the water passes thru the silk it is pos or neg charged, or picks up a charge and then the..........oh I don't know what I'm talknig about I said this on another forum, and am happy to say it again here You are a wonderful funny, helpful, knowledgable, kind and happy person Dianna, and I really look forward to seeing your posts. Isn't this just a GREAT forum Fishkeeping is a bit like the web.... You start in the middle with the basics, but then there are so many spokes you have to slip into place to make the wheel run smoothly, and as you say, these "spokes" can be anything from a simple idea, to a complex formula. John, As the water passes throught the silk, it is not pos. or neg. charged. It is wet. That's all Mmmm... Don't most car batteries contain water ? Happy Days Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Are far as I can recall from uni chem the hydrogen atoms in water are slightly positively charged, and the oxygen atom slightly -vely charged. When normal salt i.e. NaCl dissolves in water the Na+ is surrounded by the oxygen atoms (slightly -ve) from H2O and the Cl- is surrounded by 1 of H2O's hydrogen atoms. I think this is what makes H2O a polar molecule as opposed to something like a symmetrical hydrocarbon eg. CH3 - CH2(n) - CH3. Water is sort of a < or L shaped molecule as opposed to the tetrahedral shape present in many larger hydrocarbons which balances the electrostatic charges out thereby making them non-polar. (you know, like dissolves like - its easier to wash paint off your hands with turps rather than with water). Shall I explain it with pictures - it would probably make far more :lol: sense :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 John is right about static not happening: As water is conductive, electrons from the negatively charged particles can travel to the positively charged particles (lacking electrons). This doesn't usually occur in air becuase air takes a large voltage to convert it into plasma before it becomes conductive. Plasma trails leading up from the ground can actually be viewed for the miniscule time they exist in lightning storms just before fork lightning strikes. Pegasus, we can harness the power of static. It is simply isolated charges: If you'd connected that curtain to a wire and another wire to the ground then you could have blown up a light bulb . Charges can build up to thousands of volts on things such as this but the current output is too low to actually do much physical damage, except in extreme cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Its all coming back to me now! In theory even completely pure water contains 1x10-7 or 0.0000001% with what is best represented as H30(+), the hydronium ion and 0.0000001% OH(-), the oxide ion. H20 + H20 --> H30(+) + OH(-) This happens spontaneously So even pure water should conduct electricity, it just does it extremely poorly. Taking the negative of base 10 of 0.0000001 = 7, this is why the value of 7 is the neutral pH, the H30(+)'s and the OH(-)'s are both present as 0.000001% of H20. There that's all I promise :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Interfecus sounds like he/she? knows a bit about chem/phys, I've been scared into shutting up and sticking to biol as it is from this point of view which I best understand things! :oops: I was only trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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