lduncan Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 From the man himself: From memory right now so I might miss a few Pr adult Reef B'fly Pr adult Green Razor wrasse Pr adult Yellow head wrasse Pr adult Royal Gramma Pr adult Blackcap Gramma school one spot cardinal school purple chromis Med Juv Franch Angel flock of yellownose neons Pr adult Candy bass flock of Chalk bass Pr adult Saddled blenny 1 Blue Chromis 3 juv Spotted goat Med Juv Smooth trun + a few I'm missing And apparently feeds several times a day. The reason he has no nutrients is because the skimmer (combined with water flow) removes it before it becomes a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 My sand bed must be pretty clean, it's so full of spaghetti worms that it looks like it has white fur sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 My sand bed must be pretty clean, it's so full of spaghetti worms that it looks like it has white fur sometimes... I'd take that as a sign it's dirty . If there's heaps of them it means there is heaps of food for them... so they are creating heaps of waste. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 easy solved, take out all the coral and fish. sand, rocks, then the tank will stay clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Hmmm, Great idea, Reef! It'd be so clean it would have to be the nicest tank ever! What I need to do is cut back on the feeding and get my skimmer cranking out a bit more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Depends what you're more interested in keeping, coral and fish, or sand crap and associated critters. I pick corals and fish. Here is another pic, and a link to images http://www.saltyzoo.com/other/jerel-tank/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 it is a very nice tank, but would not make the top 10 on RC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Maybe not. Some people just don't like "brown" corals, even if it is their natural colour. Opinions may be different if it was full of indo-pacific acros, rather than just A. cervicornis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I like the corals no issue with that. Just he has basically nothing in the tank. Not hard to keep clean, sandbed or no sandbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Just he has basically nothing in the tank. Not hard to keep clean, sandbed or no sandbed. Nothing in the tank?!?!?!? Did you not see Bomber's (incomplete) list of fish provided by Layton on the previous page? He lists over 20 fish, not including the two different "flocks" and two different "schools". Granted they are all not really considered "large" fish, but it is certainly not "nothing". That's a lot of fish and he feeds heavily. It's the methodology that "allows" him keeps it as clean or as dirty as he chooses. I really don't see why people have such a hard time accepting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Depends what you're more interested in keeping, coral and fish, or sand crap and associated critters. I pick corals and fish. Definitely not interested in any of that colored rock crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 He lists a lot of fish, but are they in the tank? I can't see them. Relative to the size of the tank I'd say he has a low fish load. However I will congratulate him it is a sparkling clean tank. But to me anyway it is unnatural looking. Looks more like a laboratory set up to grow coral, more than a "garden". But come on you BB Bashers :lol: . Surely it is obvious it would be hard to keep this tank clean to that degree if it had a sand bed? Not saying I'm in love with the look, but it must be good in terms of cleanliness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 He lists a lot of fish, but are they in the tank? I can't see them. Have a look in the link to the photos, I can see a lot of the fish he lists in different photos. They're just camera shy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'd probably want to see one shot of the tank, which after all is fairly open, showing all the fish. Individual shots proves that at some point he had the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I'd probably want to see one shot of the tank, which after all is fairly open, showing all the fish. Individual shots proves that at some point he had the fish. No dig at you directly Wasp since this seems to be the trend by quite a few people on this forum, but I find these sort of challenges a bit odd. Why is it that people always have to "prove" everything. Why would he lie about how many fish he has? I have been challenged by other people about some things that I've said about my system in the past, e.g. How could I possibly have over 100 times turn over, etc... I understand the whole challenge of a theory so that we can dig deeper and have a better understanding, but challenges of observations are implications that people are lying. Has there been a history on this forum prior to my joining that has led to this sort of doubtful mentality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Fair enough comment Joe you are right. I don't like these "challenges" either. In fact look through my history you won't find me ever having challenged anyone to show a picture of their tank. The closest i would have been was asking Layton to show a picture of his torquiose stag, that was no challenge, I had a genuine interest to see what the stag looked like under normal light. I even asked Layton not to show his whole tank to deliberately avoid putting him on the spot. What I said was not a challenge to Bomber I hardly expect him to come to our forum and feel he has to prove anything. Just I've seen a lot of pics of his tank and never seen 20 fish in it, despite it being a fairly open tank. If such a picture could be produced it will resolve the issue. But hey, it's not really even an issue to me, it was just a comment I made, if there's 20 fish in it where are they hiding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 JB how could you POSSIBLY have 100 times turnover!!!!!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Depends what you're more interested in keeping, coral and fish, or sand crap and associated critters. Blah, blah, what a dumb ass statement. Sand beds and fish/corals are not mutually exclusive, nor are sand beds and coloured corals. Layton - Your tank is BB, lets do a coral comparison for growth and/or colour measured against my dirty time bomb tank full of sand crap and other associated critters. Show my the error of my ways, no excuses lets see it. When was the last time you posted a pic of your tank? Where is an update of the terquoise stag coral you brought? Come on lets see it, after all the noise you've been making lately you must have something stunning to show us? Change the record or show my why your right. Pie BTW: That BB tank above doesn't look good to me, I wouldn't have it for my own. And I only see 2 fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Blah, blah, what a dumb ass statement. Sand beds and fish/corals are not mutually exclusive, nor are sand beds and coloured corals. Layton - Your tank is BB, lets do a coral comparison for growth and/or colour measured against my dirty time bomb tank full of sand crap and other associated critters. Show my the error of my ways, no excuses lets see it. When was the last time you posted a pic of your tank? Where is an update of the terquoise stag coral you brought? Come on lets see it, after all the noise you've been making lately you must have something stunning to show us? Pies, it seems as though you are totally missing the point (once again). No one said that an SPS tank with sand can't be absolutely amazing. The point is that typically at some point in time IN THE FUTURE (estimated by some at the 5+ year mark, of course depending on how the tank is maintained) when the sandbed becomes saturated with nutrients, some problems will start to occur since it must release these back into the water (given that you are not doing the husbandry to remove these nutrients and you said yourself that you NEVER touch your sandbed). A typical sign that a tank is starting to head towards that downward spiral is when nuisance aglae raise their ugly head (feeding off the phosphates). In some of the pictures of your tank that you have posted, there are bits of this algae noticable. This is what I believe Layton was referring to before. Now don't take offense because it is not a perfect correlation, but possibly (hopefully not) a sign of things to come. I think that everyone agrees that you have a nice tank. So, there is no need for all this "my coral is sweeter than yours" comments. All I can say is that I hope the theory is wrong for your sake since I would hate to see such a nice tank fade to average with STN and the rest. I don't want to speak for Layton, but I just want to say that it's not a fair comparison for the color vs. color test at the moment. His tank is in transition while he is cooking the rock in tank. He and I haven't talked about this before, but I think he could possibly use more flow as well if he intends to continue on with this method. What you are asking for is like saying, "Chimera, bring your damn corals over to my house and compare colors since you just started that Zeovit stuff. Everyone says that it is amazing, so show me the pudding (or whatever the phrase is)." It takes times to work. I saw pictures of your tank when it younger and it certainly doesn't look anything like what you have today. BTW: That BB tank above doesn't look good to me, I wouldn't have it for my own. And I only see 2 fish. Well, I think there may be some people that would say the same about your aquascape, but aren't crude enough to say it in a public forum. To each their own. I presume you don't design your tank for anyone but yourself, and I am sure the same applies to Bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jettin Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I myself like the theory behind BB tanks. Anyway, abit off topic guys? Start a BB vs DSB thread...... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Chim my tank has approx 190L my main pump is 6000L per hr with very little restriction & my tank doesnt look much like a washing machine even with the 9300L the two powerheads are doing, Crikey yrs must be even more than mine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Pies, it seems as though you are totally missing the point (once again). Joeblog - I am not missing the point, this time or any other time thank you. The statement was made about keeping coral/fish or sandbed critters, that is an OR. I was responding to this. Now you tell me, what point did I miss? JoeBlog - I understand your theory behind the sandbed, eventually filling and causing problems. Personally I don't perscribe to it, but thats a whole other area for debate. In some of the pictures of your tank that you have posted, there are bits of this algae noticable. Yip lots of noticable algae in my tank. I don't however seen it as a warning indicator of things to come. Algae is ever present. Kind of looks like it does in nature. Still I could be wrong, and you could be right, but if you are there are a LOT of us in trouble of our tanks crashing... "my coral is sweeter than yours" Now I never said this, but the point I was trying to make was 'put up or shut up'. Having a theory is fine, but if you are going to push it every chance, I say 'show me'. Laytons tank/s have been setup for longer than mine, and everytime someone mentions DSBs Layton is all over it, so I don't think its unreasonable to say 'compare yours to mine'. Obviously it was unreasonable 0_0 Well, I think there may be some people that would say the same about your aquascape, but aren't crude enough to say it in a public forum. Crude? Jezzz is this one of those places where you can only say nice things but not bad things. Perhapps you would prefur that I lie "Wow that tank is stunning, if only I could one day have something that nice in my own home". The picture was posted for a purpose, and I was responding to it in context of the point I was putting foward. Its not a nice looking tank, in that nothing about it would inspire me to imitate its setup. Its a matter of taste, but as reef said its not likley to ever make an RC top 10. As for my own tank, I like it, but if you or anyone else doesn't I encourage you to say so, I promise to never accuse anyone of being crude. If you don't want the feedback -good or bad- then either don't post your pics or say something in advance. Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Crude? Jezzz is this one of those places where you can only say nice things but not bad things. Is there a public place where is it appropriate to make negative, judgmental statements? This is not encouraging behavior for the newbies or the experienced. This is a hobby and from what I gather, the point of the forum is to share experiences so that we can all learn from each other, i.e. make each others tanks better. Blah, blah, what a dumb ass statement. Ridicule and put downs like this are what attribute to holding this forum down. It is perfectly fine to debate topics, but there is no need for opinionated antics. I assume that you are an educated man and it would be nice to see more posts that reflect this. the point I was trying to make was 'put up or shut up'. Having a theory is fine, but if you are going to push it every chance, I say 'show me'. Laytons tank/s have been setup for longer than mine, and everytime someone mentions DSBs Layton is all over it, so I don't think its unreasonable to say 'compare yours to mine'. Obviously it was unreasonable It is really irrelevant what his tank looks like. I don't think Layton even plans on having a BB when it is all said and done. I believe he is going to follow the Steve Weast (sp?) method of SSB with regular vacuuming and sand replacement. He simply has done quite a bit of research on the topic and understands the differences between substrate methods. As far as pictures, why would you want to see a tank full of cooking rock and not so flash corals from the shedding nutrients? Once it is all done, I can't wait to see it myself since he has some quite nice corals in there and I'm sure it's going to be amazing once the enviroment is right. At any rate, the point is that I don't see the need for the negative comments. We can all benefit from your experiences and "constructive" criticism. Enough said on this publicly. If you (Pies) want to respond to any of my comments directed at you, please PM me so that this thread can get back on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I understand your theory behind the sandbed, eventually filling and causing problems. Personally I don't perscribe to it, but thats a whole other area for debate. It's no theory. It's how they work. You may not prescribe to it, but hundreds of scientist and researchers say that it is how they work. Don't worry JB, i'm used to the "dumbass" type statements from the zeo stuff. I wonder what people will think when they hear the other part about sandbeds. Not only do they cycle phosphate, but the cycle metals too . And those metal eating bacteria I was talking about in the other topics, play a role in the phosphate cycling too. Interesting little creatures those metal eating bacteria. All I try to do is explain how things work. People can do what they want with the info - chose to ignore it, or apply it. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Joe Blogg said - Ridicule and put downs like this are what attribute to holding this forum down. To be fair, before accusing Pies of ridicule, please bear in mind he was responding TO ridicule, in the same vane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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