nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Ok.. I have seen far too many beautiful saltwater tanks that make freshwater setups look second best by a mile and have decided to take the plunge and go saltwater. I currently have a 1220x470x450mm tank around 250L The canister filter I have is an Aqua One CF1200 around 1200lph Plently of high powered pumps for airstones And a 200W heater. Please excuse my ignorance, but what will I need to create a saltwater tank? I have heard of protein skimmers and a need for different lighting but cant seem to get any good sound advice. And a rough estimate of what I will need/cost I plan on keeping the cliche clowns and hope to get a pair for breeding, and maybe the odd different species, and really like the different types of anenomies (sp)? and other marine plants/coral. Your advice is much appreciated! Regards, Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Okay.. I'll have a go at this, I'm doing similar with a 5', 370L tank. You're looking at the following: Protein Skimmer (I went a Deltec MCE600) Powerheads (2xSeio M820's in my case) Salifert Test Kits (reading has told me there's no other) - Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and some others if you want to keep corals. Rock, either Base or Live - an indication I've seen from reading is 0.5kg/gallon, but I'm sure that's debatable as well. This is what provides your filtration/converts ammonia all the way to nitrogen gas (even past the nitrate stage us freshwater people are used to) so is very important. Definitely reading enough to understand the differences between Base rock, Live Rock, and Cured Live Rock Sand/Argonite Stone for the bottom of the tank unless the bare bottom look is your kinda thing. There's also the option to go DSB (deep sand bed) which would need a heap more sand.. I suggest reading a heap before making this decision. Lighting - if you want to keep SPS corals you're going to need some serious lighting, think around 300W (very rough guess - others can do better than that I'm sure), T5 or Metal Halide lighting is your best bet to get that much light in a small space. If you want to run a sump, you're looking at another tank (to be the sump), PVC plumbing, and a return pump. The advantages of a sump are that you increase the total volume of water in the system, making it more stable, and also gives you somewhere to hide the skimmer/heater/dead bodies/etc/etc. There are more advantages I'm sure, but someone else better than I can answer that. Oh, your heater will work fine as long as it's not stainless steel. The aqua one cannister filter is pretty much useless, although I've read on reefcentral.com (sign up there if you haven't.. awesome reading) that some people are using the larger ones (like the model you have) as a refrigium. Not sure on the milage there, but using it as a normal filter will just generate nitrates off the scale which you don't want. And the main thing you need, is patience... truckloads of it.. forget all the timeframes you learned in freshwater... they don't apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Good choice. My son has just done exactly that, with the same size tank. He lucked out I had a spare skimmer for him, the skimmer is important you are best to get a good one, likely around a thousand dollars or so ( Salt tanks aint cheap). Don't use the cannister or the air pumps. Salt's a bit different the filtration is done by bacteria that live in the rock. You get special coral rock that is porous for the bacteria to live in, it is referred to as "live rock" due to it's population of bacteria, and eventually, hopefully, the many other things that will grow on it. But the biggy to think on here is money, even though you may have a lot of gear already, you will be likely to spend 2 grand or more to set up. All newbies including myself like to think they are just a little smarter and can do it cheaper than the rest, but eventually to do it properly, some big bucks must be spent. EDIT - Sorry misnoma I wrote this before seeing your post, covered some of the same ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 hmmm...2000? thats quite a lot of $$$ just to breed some clown fish! Will def take a few spawnings to pay itself off! So what gear will I need, like a full list? And will I have to drill a hole in my tank? If so I may aswell custom build a new one seeing as I cant use my existing setup I may aswell keep it going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 you dont need a mega setup just for two clowns, for anemones yes. there is a guy here that has his clowns breeding in a viaaqua tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 That cost is about right ($2k) for a basic system... I will have spent that by the time I'm running (and probably more after thinking livestock lol). Wasp: heh no probs.. I was kinda hoping that if I got things too wrong someone more knowledgeable would correct me anyhows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I have just been told my canister filter will be sweet as? Why the conflict of info I have no idea. So far I understand I need a protein skimmer, and something to create a current, thats all I am certain of so far... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 There is a lot of conflict of info, and some things will be right in one situation and wrong in another. There is a lot of research to do. But probably the best way is to look at a few successful tanks and get ideas straight from the person. That way you will understand the reasoning behind things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Using cannister filters (as a bio filter) for salt water is old school, MAYBE ok if you are only keeping fish but anythink else will cause issues. The problem is that cannister filters will break amonia etc down to nitrate. This is really bad news for corals. Now days the most common method is to use a protein skimmer which removes a great deal of the protein, amonia, organics etc, beofre they start breaking down to nitrates. The little that the skimmer doesn't get is converted to nitrogen gas by the live rock. This is known as the Berlin method. By the way you can hold-on to and use the cannister but use it for running phosphate removing resins, ziolites, etc, not as a bio filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Too right mate, the proof is in the pudding! Ill have to ask the local experts who arnt trying to sell gear. Any other info from you gurus though is more than welcome! Cheers Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 By the way you can hold-on to and use the cannister but use it for running phosphate removing resins, ziolites, etc, not as a bio filter. Well thats music to my ears mate, as I thought it was now useless, so it basically controlls other substances and at the same time can increase water flow yeah? Sounds good, so other than that and a Protein skimmer, I wont need to filter the water as the live coral will do this yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 the rocks not the coral, (was once coral now just holey rocks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 but will turn into living coral yeah? confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 The live "rock" does this, it is the gray and red/pink looking rock in all the pictures. For a tank your size I'm guessing (at about 0.5kg/gal) your going to need 20-30+ kg factor in $10-$15 per kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 cool so this pretty looking rock is the base for all coral I wish to introduce and is the rock of choice for the back wall I plan on creating? It also filters the nasties yeah? So whats the biz with these wet/dry things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 could I get away with using oe of these? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 413015.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 not on a tank that big, ben (deepblueaquarium) has some needle wheel skimmers that are ok. not the best in the world but they dont cost the earth like deltec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Wet/dry is just another type of bio filter that will create nitrates. As much as you can you should avoid any thing in the tank (besides the live rock) that has a large surface area, sponges, etc. With regards the trademe skimmer, you really need to decide what you want to do in the future, most newbies (myself included) fall into the trap of thinking they will buy cheaper gear now and see how they go, what usually happens is in a few of months time they want to upgrade and end up having wasted $ on gear that needs upgrading. Remember it is going to cost a lot of money there isn't a cheap way round it, in the long run you are better to buy good gear now. Your gona need to spend $400-$500 on live rock, 50-100 on each coral, 50+ on each fish, so why risk that investment by using cheap gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 very well put, So what kind of gear am I after then?? Remember dont try to sell me something I dont need, Ive had enough of it already from the LFS's around here!!! I only want advice here and will keep an eye out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 very few people on this site are going to try and sell you something for personal benefit. you need to decide wether your willing to invest the $$$ in decent equiptment and have a good shot at it. the skimmer i suggested from ben would be the smallest id consider for a tank that size see this link http://www.deepblueaquarium.co.nz/skimmers.htm you might want to find a second hand deltec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Fantastic mate thanks. So would the deep blue skimmers do the trick for 200l? Or you saying to spend the extra $$ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Theres a few good treads here that you should have a look through and if you ask I'm sure some of the locals will be happy to show off their tanks and explain what all the bits do. Theres a lot of things you can buy that are really good, some just make life easier others you might need depending on what you want to keep. Again you really need to decide what you want to do, and go from there. For example fluro lights are ok if you want to keep fish and soft corals, but if you want to keep hard corals and anenomies etc you really want to look at metal halide lights which can cost alot more and will really push up your power bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 the macro needle wheels would do for a fish only or softie tank. if your wanting sps/anemone's then you "need" a really good skimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickyboi Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I want to go the whole hog, anenemoies are half the reason I want to convert, those amazing colours and tentacles flowing about grab my eyes for hours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 then dont skimp, for a good new skimmer contact reef or jetskisteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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