BK Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Please correct me if I'm worry (not often haha) there are 4 kind of Rams available. Blue, Gold, Balloon and Bolivan. I've looking on the net and I'm a bit confused the Balloons look like a blown up Blue. The blue has a lot of blue in the near 1/2 of fish and he's were I get it all wrong. My Rams (pair) that I have I think are Bolivan but got them from a place that called them "Butterfly Rams" they have a little bit of yellow on the front 1/2 of the body. My question is are there such things as Golden Rams and are they the same as blue rams but with the yellow colour in the rear 1/2 of the fish???? Any one with photos?? Sorry do have any my self as the only time these guys are at thr font of the tank is feeding time and the Discu don't let anything stay still for to long at feeding time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 BK Try this site. http://apisto.bravepages.com/Ram%20article.htm There are only two types of rams Bolivian and the Blue, which I think is also the butterly ram. The other two are only derivatives of the blue. Don't go near the ballons, they should have been fed to the nearest Oscars. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted July 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Cheers, understand from other postings that some people have strong feelings about the Balloon due to breeding of un-natural traits, but wouldn't this also apply to a lot of fish. Guppies, Discus just to name two that aren't what you would call natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Nope, not at all. Those two you mentioned are just line breeding for finnage and/or colors normally. Whereas the Bxxxx fish are bred for their deformities. Which, as a breeder, is against all what I feel about reproduction of a species. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 and before this thread goes into it. Please don't bring up goldfish. It's all been said before. (to other posters BK) Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Excuse me? Discus aren't natural? What crack pip have you been smoking? Yes, the colours have ben enhanced by selective breeding but the body shape is the exact same as wild brown discus. Do your research before calling them unnatural. As far as guppies go... yeah, the tails are a bit outrageous but they're not far from the natural fish either. I'd use goldfish if I was trying to make a point of selective deformity. By the way, we got 4 young blue rams last night and they're COOL little buggers! Main reason why I looked at this thread.... Alan, thanks for the site, will bookmark it for future breeding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Yep Blue&Kim. Are they pairs , or sorting themselves out? They can get pretty territorial as the pairing takes place and they decide on a nesting site. With those rams, they like real soft, peaty water, at a temp just over 80oF. EJ has had some huge breeding success using this formula. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Paired off.... don't think so. Saw some interesting behaviour yesterday with two males? circling each other slowly showing off war colours. They're all in the quaratine tank at the moment with a bunch of smaller fish that I recently pulled from the now-discus tank. Guppies, penguin tetras, the works. Anything that was chasing each other around and keeping the discus from having peace and quiet in the tank. Now everything is in quarantine in that tank for another week. I have a spare 10G/40ltr (45cm) tank or two around here, so I can always give them a quick separate setup if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted July 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Do your research before calling them unnatural. What crack pip have you been smoking? Thats a very high horse to get down off Blueandkim. Only asking why people have the feelings they do about Balloon Rams and if something doesn't occur in nature its unnatural not saying that its wrong as I love Discus. Read and think before you post rather than posting put downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted August 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Yesterday I saw a Golden Ram, they are a variant of the Balloon. Fish looked good and healthy just shorter in length and deeper in the body much like humans who are trending to be taller and wider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 LOL BK. Only in America! I think the argument that goldfish have been kept & bred for hundreds of years vs the 30-odd years that tropicals have been kept is a great point of what will happen to tropicals in the future. I just hate the idea that with genetic manipulation of the fish breeds they won't ever be able to be re-released into the wild if the original colony is destroyed. As for Discus, we really are changing the way they look. A rounder profile is desired and eventually we're going to all end up with big floating dinner plates that would really BE dinner if they ever went native. Balloon Rams? Don't really see a point in breeding the little cuties into a shorter form, they're already small enough. But hey, I'm sure if guppy and betta breeders have their way we'll soon have fish with 3 tails and spikes, so how can we knock the breeding of just another mutation? But when it comes down to it in the end - anything that prevents a species from surviving in the wild is unnatural. Take that as you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted August 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 It all comes down to where u draw a line. Colour verse shape. Would be interesting to get a list together of what would look out of place if they were returned to there own river system. I'll start with Discus, Guppies, Angles,S Figthers, Flowerhorns, Balloon Rams. B&K not BK interesting that Black Tail Sharks can no longer be found in nature. Interesting that we talk about being able one day to release fish back into there river system but does that mean that we would pay higher prices for locally breed fish and are happy not to have Cardinals. We can all say theres thing but would we go through with it. I keep Parrots and struggle some times to convince my self that its ok because one day we could rerelease. Do birds belong in cagers, fish in fish tanks. Its a hard question and I don't have the answer but one of the things we have to ask our selves in a hobby that takes things from nature. I would love a reef tank but is it the rigth thing to do. Saying that one day we could be the only place that they survive so it ok doesn't stack up, as we could have been one of the reasons. I think I can remember Reef say about Frags that they cost more to produce than importing live stock and that's why there isn't really anyone into this in a big way. I think that this shows that money is more important than our principles.As above I don't have the answers but we should all ask these questions of our selves. I could be worry and it may not have been Reef. A onther one could be Zebra Plecos I think these can't be caught wild anymore but there is still high demand even in NZ so this must have effect on the wild stocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Saw a couple of Balloons (first time in the flesh)in the weekend and can understand your views. Don't think they would last to long in there own tank at best, worst looking than blood parrots. also some Golden rams that seem to be across between Blues and Bolivan in shape and size but gold were the Blue would be. Much better looking fish that can swim normally. Has any one keeped Blues and Bolivans together. Do they get on. Looking at getting 3' tank really to breed these and maybe a pair of Apisto's. Wil see what happens and migth only be able to have 1 pair at each end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 hi guy's, golden ram's are just a varient of the blue they are o-natural they come that way straight out of the wild. and as for the pot bellied ram's that are out there today,they are man-made just like parrot's. if put back in the wild parrot's-pot-bellied ram's,they would become someones dinner due to the fact they can't swim properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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